Sumner missing 1861 anyone find them please Sorted I think

Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 744 Location: Fleetwood

Hi I can only think these two brothers were in a workhouse as i can't find them anywhere.
I have found a couple that maybe be them in Mount Pleasant Liverpool but not been able to verify it yet.
Can anyone spot them elsewhere.
George Sumner 1854 and John Sumner c 1856 born Marshide .
Their father Matthew was at sea and I am thinking they were under the care of their half sister as their mother died in 1859 but sister Margaret Meadows was in Kirkdale Jail in 1861.
I have them in later census as the family moved to Fleetwood and settled there so has been easy from then on to follow.
Before her marriage to Matthew Ellen was living in Marshside with two children James Meadow/s and Margaret James also seems to missing in 1861 too.
in 1851 Ellen was living with her sister Alice married to Robert Rimmer but they don't seem to be with them in 1861.
I have found one or two James but don't think it is him.
anyone any idea any help would be great.
Thansk Germaine
x :grin:
Just going off to watch Britains got Talent so won't be around for a bit

Dotty · Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: Got to be...

What a good final it was...never watched it before and wanted every artist to win!

The dog got my vote...

Your Meadows had to be somewhere and that's a fact!

Dotty

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Family History is moo-sic to my ears!

Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 744 Location: Fleetwood

Hi Dotty yes I was stuck on who I wanted to win. All winners in my eyes.

Yes those Sumners and the odd Meadows lad must have been somewhere . The workhouse is the only place that I can think of unless I am missing them somewhere.
They all appear again in 1871 so they were hiding somewhere

Germaine
x

Dotty · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: Maybe...

Maybe the name's been spelt differently on the earlier census.

I remember one member looking for ages for a rellie and finally finding him in the cells for drunkeness. Of course, if it's children then that's less likely...

I'm sure that you will find them.

Dotty

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Family History is moo-sic to my ears!

Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 744 Location: Fleetwood

Well I had another look this afternoon and found something else now ( taken years to spot this one, shows never give up) throws some of my research and theories out.
But it does make sense of some things not so much others they will have to be checked out.
Looks like they were all under half sisters name Meadows transcribed Meadors.
All looks very interesting.
Yipee :grin: can't wait till tonight then I can really have a good look.
Baby sitting today.
Germaine
x

Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 744 Location: Fleetwood

Well I am pretty sure now that this is my family what a mess that was it had the man next door as the father her brothers then came as her sons and the Sumner lads were Meadows not Sumner.
After looking at the image more closely you can see it is a different household and the head was about!! (fits with him being at sea don't you think )she was his step daughter which would be correct and apart from one step son down as a son the other two were his sons making it all correct.
So now my skeleton has gone as I was sure it was her in jail in 1861 ( hard when you only have intials) least she wasn't a prostitute as it stated.
Also this fits in with the newspaper report from when Margaret Meadows was in court it said she got 6 month so I couldn't understand why she was still their over 12 month later. Pretty sure it was my Margaret who was charged with Larceny though will need something more to be 100%.
Glad though that my theory she looked after the boys after their mother died was right though. But glad they weren't in a workhouse after all.
This also fits with my G Grandfather being born in Marshside I was really worried who his father was (was he the result of a punter? or did something awful happen in jail) Think the story that his father was lost at sea may be right after all. Though not sure on the name I was given it was his step fathers surname so was this a true coincedence or just a mistake.
Well all this shows you have to be really sure of your facts. That they usually are there somewhere and search long enough and they will turn up well most of the time.
Thanks Dotty although I have looked at what I thought could be every spelling of their names I had another look and BINGO they there they were.
A Happy Germaine
x :grin:

Dotty · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Keep on plodding...

So glad you found them...I've lots of friends who are genealogists and they all say the same...keep on looking!

Dotty :grin:

_________________
Family History is moo-sic to my ears!

Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 744 Location: Fleetwood

Yes Dotty so true i have one or two they must be thre on the 1901 I won't give up on them .
Germaine
x :grin:

BrianG · Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 431 Location: Cambridge UK

Hi Germaine
Can't help thinking I've got an interest in this lot :grin:

Was Matthew Sumner (George & John's father) the son of Richard Sumner & Jenny Lunt? Was his wife Ellen Meadow?

If so then I already have both Matthew (3rd cousin 5x removed) and Ellen (1st cousin 4x removed) in my database separately (courtesy of Joyce O!) but have not followed up on either of them yet. Ellen Meadow's mother Isabella Sumner (really confusing but I think it's a different family, or maybe not!!) is the sister of my GGGgrandmother Betty Sumner who married James Halsall. After the death of Ellen's father James Meadow Isabella married James' brother Henry...

The whole Sumner / Meadow(s) / Tasker / Barton thing is a complete nightmare, a tangled web of intermarrying; and it looks like it might just have got worse!

Brian

Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 744 Location: Fleetwood

Hi Brian Yes this is the right family.
Yes was a real tangle got some of it sorted I think.
I have quite a lot on the Meadows .
If you send me your email adress I will send an invite to my tribal pages tree. You should be able to follow at least the Meadows.
ah I haven't gone too much into the the Sumner butt that is right Isabella did marry a Halsall after James Meadows died, so I have a bit more to look at now.
Yes I was wondering if Mathews family fitted in with the same Sumenr family.
Have to go out now but won't be long.
Germaine
x :grin:

Dotty · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Get together

Wow, it's great to be able to put names into your family...it truly is a small world!

Maybe one day someone will organise a North Meols' Families' Reunion... I'd book a ticket for that!

Dotty

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Family History is moo-sic to my ears!

Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 744 Location: Fleetwood

Oh yes Dotty :grin: that would be good.
Most of my Dads family came from there so lots of different local names in my tree.

Germaine
x :grin:

BrianG · Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 431 Location: Cambridge UK

We will all be there I think!

Sometimes I am just thankful that I only have one grandparent from North Meols - a bit of genetic diversity is a good thing

Brian

Bez · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject:

Well Brian, that one grandparent has given you an awful lot of contacts as did my one North Meols grandparent. This was my father's mother - my maternal grandmother was born in Salford and my 2 grandfather's came from Aspull in Lancs and Rhosygadfa in Shropshire.

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Middle-aged and seeking the middle-ages!

BrianG · Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 431 Location: Cambridge UK

I think I can beat that!

Paternal grandmother - North Meols
Paternal grandfather - Liverpool of Shropshire / Suffolk / Westmorland descent
Maternal grandmother - Liverpool of Welsh descent (both sides)
Maternal grandfather - Liverpool of Irish / Nottinghamshire / Cheshire descent (maybe with a bit of Welsh too)

Some fascinating questions from Germaine's research - maybe even a change of GGGGGgrandparents for me

B

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