| Archive for nmfhssouthport.myfreeforum.org North Meols (Southport) Family History Society |
| Yvonne |
Abbreviation in Howard marriageI have found a marriage in the Parish Registers for James Howard to Alice Rymer. btp cpbtp - I know this is 'both of this parish' but cp?? Unable to find what this means in the abbreviations. My only thought is consent of parents. Can someone confirm this for me please. Yvonne 
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| Jane |
Does it give their ages? If they were under 21 then they would need parent's consent.
Must say I've never come across that one before |
| Yvonne |
Jane, No it does not give their ages.
The marriage date is 17th May 1814, and funnily enough the three marriages above it also has cp after them. Also in the One name Extracts PR for Rimmer the same marriage has cp after it as well as four marriages before and after it. Perhaps I should have put in my first post that it is in the One Name Extracts. Yvonne |
| Jane |
If it is in the parish records then it should be on our one name extracts. they are copied from the PR's.
I would doubt it was consent of parents for so many to have it written on the entry. I wonder if the p is parish but I can't think what cp stands for. Maybe someone will spot this and put us out of our misery. |
| Bez |
It isn't a mis-typing either because I have just been looking at the Rimmer One Name Extracts and I note that one entry says sp, btp, cp. Perhaps we should ask the Lancashire Parish Register Society? |
| Jane |
What a good idea Beryl. Now do they do email I wonder. 
Yes I found their site and have emailed. Watch this space |
| Yvonne |
Will watch this space also
Yvonne 
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| SeaCopRimmer |
Can't wait to find out this one - I have never noticed the cp before - but as Bez says there are a lot in the Rimmer One Name Index; could have a lot of fun working out what it might be though 
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| Yvonne |
Just had a brainwave!!!!
Went on Lancs Online Parish Clerk Project. The marriage I quoted says Consent of Parents at the end. Yvonne |
| Dotty |
Well done...Well ladies I knew we would find the answer somewhere. I say 3 cheers to Yvonne for bringing the query to our attention and then for using her noggin and finding the answer! Now we have that knowledge and are the richer for it...Dotty :thumbup: |
| Jane |
Makes you think though - how many people married at a very young age back then? They must have been under 21 to need parental consent.
Then again I doubt many celebrated 50 years together. Not because of divorce but the average life span. What a sad thought. 
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| SeaCopRimmer |
When was the minimum age of marriage raised to 16? I know at one time young people of 14 could marry with the parents' consent 
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| Dotty |
Makes you think...You're right of course Bez. Gladys you may have a point about the age thing. This info has made Yvonne think that these peeps are not the ones she wants cos of the cp thing.Y'all have a nice day now...and see you later! Trying to find a key to the chapel...don't panic all will be well. Dotty 
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| Jane |
Oh Seacop I never thought about age limits being different then!! Of course you could marry younger but not sure what age you needed parental consent. Have to see what i can find out now |
| Bez |
I came across this recently - I think it was 1929. It used to be 14 for boys and 12 for girls - but I will check up on that. Where on earth did I read it? |
| SeaCopRimmer |
Found this on a Google search for "Age of Consent to Marry" ................ and I quote:
Most of the points have already been answered here and the age for marriage was indeed 12 for girls & 14 for boys, apart from when it was raised slightly during the Commonwealth years, but a person was still considered a minor until the age of 21 and would require the consent of a parent to marry at a younger age, this remained the law until 'Age of Marriage Act 1929' when the legal age was raised to 16 for both girls & boys and still requiring consent of parents under age of 21. This was changed when the age of majority was lowered to 18 in 1969 and the age of consent for minors was lowered with it. The age of consent, the legal age to have sexual intercourse was raised to 16 in 1929. So to answer Chloed's original question, a girl could legally marry at 12 in 1710 but in reality it was very rare apart from cases when a marriage was usually arranged to safeguard property or the like. |
| Dotty |
oooer.....Thankyou for clearing that up Gladys. How are you today>Dotty :smt056 |
| Yvonne |
Today received a copy of James & Alice's marriage from the Parish Register, but not much help. Witnesses were R ? Rymer (not very clear could even be R t) & John Wright.
Anyway, the marriage was by Banns. As consent of Parents is given is there anywhere that the Parents names would be? Thanks Yvonne |
| BrianG |
In my Shrewsbury genealogy wanderings I have come across a possible for my gtx2 grandfather Charles Griffiths. The evidence so far (admittedly circumstantial) points to his wife being 12 or 13 at the time of marriage in 1825
Brian |
| unsworth |
could this have been about legal age of consent as in the 1800's a boy became a man legally at 21 but a girl/woman was not of legal age till 25. prior to that age she would need her fathers permission for just about everything. including her engagement. |
| Jane |
This site may help with historical facts about marriage -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_license Shame it was by banns. Sometimes marriage licences survive (I have one of them) Sorry I can't help - I hope someone may know the answer though |
| Yvonne |
They did not marry very very young.
I have James' death cert in 1842 and it states he was 47, making his birth c1795.but 1841 census states 1796, same as his wife. Alice death in 1869 states she was 76 making her birth c1793 but census 1841 states c1796, 1851 - 1792, 1861 -1795. So looking at the Registers there is none that fits the bill even though it says btp . To go further I need to find their parents, that is why I wondered if, it would be written down anywhere that they gave their consent to their childrens marriage. |
| BrianG |
The 1841 census in particular is notoriously unreliable for ages., which were often rounded down to the nearest "5". This produces weird results when comparing ages with later censuses and certificates.
Also many people simply had no idea how old they were! Illiteracy was high, presumably innumeracy (?) even higher Brian |
| Yvonne |
I have been told that maybe the parents could be in the Banns Book.
Would anyone know if St Cuthbert's had one for this period? Also, they were farming Crowland Farm, so do you think there would possibly be a Will by James when he died in 1842, and by Alice in 1867. Would Lancs Record Office hold anything for James' will? |