PatF
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Alice MeadowsI wonder if anyone can recognise this lady with the scant info I have? I have a birth cert. for the birth of Ellen Hartley and it states that Thomas is her father and Alice (formerly Meadows) is her mother but can't seem to find a marriage date for them. Ellen was born in Feb. 1850 reg district Ormskirk - sub district Aughton - is this in your domain? Thomas was a boatman at the time and after the date of the birth and also under the mark of Thomas Hartley is the area of Lydiate written which I thought was unusual. Many thanks - Pat.
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SeaCopRimmer
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1851 Census : Liverpool (Vauxhall District)
Canal No. 6
Thomas Hartley, 37, Boatman born Liverpool
Alice Hartley, 37, born Legitt (?)
James Hartley, 11, Scholar, born Legitt
Ellen Hartley, 1, born Legitt
James Meadows, Lodger, 41, Boatman
Looks as if this is the family, but never heard of Legitt - could be a small place along one of the canals.
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Jane
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They could have married anywhere. A boatman would have moved around quite a lot.
Legitt does sound a strange place but Seacop could be right. It could have been anywhere along the canal.
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PatF
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Thanks to Sea cop and Jane - great help! Could the Legitt be the "Lydiate" that is written on the cert.? Tried saying both quickly and sounded like a frog  It doesn't really does it? If I find the answer I will let you know but many thanks again as I can now use this 1851 census entry to help me further.
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Germaine
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I wonder if this is the family in 1841
Alice Hartley abt 1811 Lancashire, England Halsall Lancashire
James Hartley abt 1839 Lancashire, England Halsall Lancashire
Thos Hartley abt 1811 Lancashire, England Halsall Lancashire
Thos Hartley abt 1833 Lancashire, England Halsall Lancashire
Willm Hartley abt 1829 Lancashire, England Halsall Lancashire
Elizth Lamb abt 1821 Lancashire, England Halsall Lancashire
They are in Lydiate and Thomas is a boat man it looks like it says Canalside.
Hope it helps Germaine
x 
If you look on LDS IGI it looks like 2 of the boys Christened in Halsall and one in Magull
Can't find thier marriage on IGI but it would look like it would be before 1830 and in the Ormskirk area.
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PatF
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Thanks Germaine - does look like the same family.
I checked on the 1881 and found James, age 40 living with his brother-in-law in Aughton and his place of birth was Lydiate so think that's where the Legitt may come from on the 1851 perhaps. James was a master of a barge so think it's the right James. Once again thanks to you all for your replies - Pat
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Germaine
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Yes Pat certainly looks like Lydiate is right and the Legitt was a misunderstanding.
Thought perhpas she could have been one of my Meadows but the only Alice i have about that age was married to a William Ball. So can't help any further . Will keep an eye out for her though.
Germaine
x
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PatF
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Hello again Germaine
I think we may have a connection with Elizabeth Andow Meadow who married my Thomas Ball before he married my gtgtgrandmother Alice Wareing - just been reading through your previous posts.
The Alice Meadows with Thomas Hartley is my gran's grandmother - her Mum being the Ellen Hartley mentioned - who went on to marry Alexander Anderson but on her marriage cert in 1868 Ellen says her father is a carter so obviously changed his ocupation unless he was carting goods on his barge!
I'm off to bed - been watching the football and just nipped on the PC to check my Inbox.......nite nite from Pat
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Germaine
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Was Alice the daughter of George and Ann Hunt.
George would have ben my 5x G Grandfather.
Yes could have been a carter on a barge sounds likely.
Germaine
x
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Bez
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The canal system was built in the 18th century for the express purpose of transporting goods.
At the beginning of the century the only things which went overland were things like cotton, wool or silk because the road system as we know it just didn't exist. Wool and cotton going from Lancashire to Yorkshire went by packhorse even as late as 1760, and there was no wagon trade at all between Liverpool and Manchester. The parishes were responsible for maintaining the roads within each parish (from 1555), but this was woefully inadequate and once outside the village the "road" was often only a track. The first Turnpike Trust was set up in 1706 to improve and maintain the roads.
Heavy or cheap goods went by sea around the coast and then by river, but by the end of the 17th century this method was under increasing pressure from the rise in trade and from the manufacturing processes which put dams, weirs and mills on the rivers to provide power. Tolls were extracted to allow for navigation around these obstacles but were unregulated. Coastal shipping was also at risk from enemy ships when we were at war, and we seemed to be at war a lot in the 18th century.
There were attempts to pass legislation to make the River Douglas navigable for the transport of coal from Wigan to the sea, but various delays and setbacks meant it was the middle of the century before this happened and it was superseded in 1774 by the Leeds to Liverpool canal. This was also the year when the first coach ran on the newly built Liverpool to Preston Turnpike.
So, while a carter is usually someone who carts with a horse and cart, it seems reasonable that someone could "cart" with a barge - especially as the power for the barge was provided by a horse.
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PatF
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Alice MeadowsThanks for the interesting info Bez - sounds like he just changed his job description!! I will keep that info in my file - like to know as much as possible about my ancestors occupation - thank you!
Germain, I was in contact with a lady, Lynne Meadows, on Genes yesterday and told her about your site and think she has the Alice that you are talking about - will send her a message but did say that you are all very helpful and she would probably find a connection and I think it MAY be you. She seemed keen to register so you may hear from her anytime soon.
Thanks to you both again .......Pat
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Germaine
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As always Bez you are a mine of info thanks for that.
Pat that will be nice if I have a connection with Lynne would love to help her and yes there are a lot of helpful people on genes. It is amazing what you pick up just looking at other people questions and answers.
Germaine
x :grin:
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Lorrie
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Alice MeadowsI have the details of her marriage to Thomas Hartley.
I have PM'd you any problems let me know.
Lorrie
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Dotty
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DetailsHi Lorrie
Please could you leave the details on this thread as well...you never know when it could come in useful.
Dotty 
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Lorrie
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Alice MeadowsSorry I didnt think about posting it here instead.
26/04/1832 at St Cuthberts Church, Halsall
Thomas Hartley - Boatman X
Alice Meadows - Spinster X
Married by Banns
Witnesses - Miles Pye & Thos Sumner
I have a lot of Halsall marriages for my family names and and this was one of them although Alice does not appear to be one of mine.
Regards
Lorrie
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Dotty
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ThanksThanks for this information. I can't help but imagine them living and working on the canals...seems romantic but I bet it wasn't!
Dotty 
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