Archive for nmfhssouthport.myfreeforum.org North Meols (Southport) Family History Society
 

BEWARE OF SCAMMERS ASKING FOR ADMIN ACCESS. WE NEVER ASK FOR ACCESS.

       nmfhssouthport.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> E to H
BrianG

another HALSALL conundrum!

was going through some old files & came across this photo. My aunt thought it was Margery Halsall (b1838), her gt (my gt-gt) grandmother. This gives me a problem as there is no trace of Margery (or husband Thomas) after 1861 when she was only 23. Nothing in the censuses and no death records as far as I can see in the BMD indexes. And the lady in the photo is not 23!!

It would be helpful to date the photo roughly. I've tried a couple of websites to match the clothes, but they all seem to cater for the "better-off" sitter. Does anyone recognise the photographer's name ?CJ Mallin?? A long shot but maybe I can track down the archive if it still exists

Brian
Bez

The trouble about working class dress is that it is so hard to date - old ladies still dressed like that (minus the bonnet) in the 1950's. I can't say I've heard of the photographer.

Southport library have a huge photographic collection, so they may have come across the name before. It's possible she was widowed and remarried and that's why they both disappeared from the census.
BrianG

Bez wrote:
The trouble about working class dress is that it is so hard to date - old ladies still dressed like that (minus the bonnet) in the 1950's. I can't say I've heard of the photographer.

Southport library have a huge photographic collection, so they may have come across the name before. It's possible she was widowed and remarried and that's why they both disappeared from the census.


There's no BMD index entry for a re-marriage, and too many Thomases in the deaths!! The fact that two of their chidren are in Southport infirmary in 1871 makes me suspicious.

I have sent off an enquiry to Southport library

Brian
Bez

Because I'm nosey I had a look myself and yes, I found a Betty (11) and a James (10) listed as patients at Southport Infirmary, Virginia St (did you know part of the building is still there?).

I also found an Ellen aged 13 working as as servant for a Peet family (John Peet, grocer) at Lane Ends. No doubt you saw that, and how convenient it would be for a family in Moss Lane. You might want to consider the Thomas Halsall living in Park Lane with his brother and family. He's the right age. The problem is his wife - slight age discrepancy, but just try saying Mary I (or Mary A, the daughter) with a North Meols accent.

The obvious answer is that the photo is actually someone else, but I don't hold out much hope for tracking down the photographers records.
BrianG

Bez wrote:
Because I'm nosey I had a look myself and yes, I found a Betty (11) and a James (10) listed as patients at Southport Infirmary, Virginia St (did you know part of the building is still there?).

I also found an Ellen aged 13 working as as servant for a Peet family (John Peet, grocer) at Lane Ends. No doubt you saw that, and how convenient it would be for a family in Moss Lane. You might want to consider the Thomas Halsall living in Park Lane with his brother and family. He's the right age. The problem is his wife - slight age discrepancy, but just try saying Mary I (or Mary A, the daughter) with a North Meols accent.

The obvious answer is that the photo is actually someone else, but I don't hold out much hope for tracking down the photographers records.


Yes I already have the servant Ellen as a probable. There are at least 3 Thomas Halsalls born around 1838. I think the one in Park Lane is son of Peter & Dorothy (HODGE). Brother Richard is the clue here, plus they both have sons named Peter!! They are related so I will attach the census and add in his family. If that "Mary I" could be "Mary J" then she is probably Mary Jane JACKSON (married 3Q 1860)

My Thomas is son of James & Betty (SUMNER)

It occurred to me that the photo might be someone else - one candidate is Margery Halsall's own grandmother, also Margery Halsall b 1784, but again a lack of census & death records is puzzling

Brian
Jane

There was a useful little piece in last weeks radio programme. I have only just got round to listening to the programme. Today's (4.30) will be the last one but you can listen to them online here -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/tracingyourroots.shtml
Dotty

Thanks

Oh, Jane. I forgot about the programmes but I will make an effort to listen to them on the link. Thanks for the reminder...

Dotty
BrianG

Had a nice & helpful reply from Southport Library. He has been through all the available trade directories. Looks lke CJ Mallin was in business in Lord Street during the 1880s and very early 1890's. No trace after 1899. Margery Halsall would have been 50 in 1888. Does that photo look like a 50 year old?

Brian
Jane

Well I would have said she looked older - but that's by today's standards when we all live longer.

She appears to have lost her teeth and the hair do makes her look older. But maybe she was around 50 which for then was old.

Or maybe it's wishful thinking because we want to make her fit
BrianG

Jane wrote:

Or maybe it's wishful thinking because we want to make her fit

I know what you mean. My aunt labelled these photo's and left them for me before she died. I am sure she would have got the information initially from Clara & Annie, daughters of our favourite ancestor Nathan Jackson and Ellen Halsall (Annie was her mother, Clara brought her up). I'm sure she is not from the Jackson side (there are a separate set of photos). I guess I may never know for sure

Brian
Bez

bgriffiths wrote:

I know what you mean. My aunt labelled these photo's and left them for me before she died. I am sure she would have got the information initially from Clara & Annie, daughters of our favourite ancestor Nathan Jackson and Ellen Halsall (Annie was her mother, Clara brought her up). I'm sure she is not from the Jackson side (there are a separate set of photos). I guess I may never know for sure

Brian


I think you've just given yourself the answer. I can just imagine Clara and Annie saying to your aunt "and that's great grandma Halsall" meaning their great grandmother - not your aunt's.

She looks more like 80 than 50.
BrianG

Bez wrote:

I think you've just given yourself the answer. I can just imagine Clara and Annie saying to your aunt "and that's great grandma Halsall" meaning their great grandmother - not your aunt's.

She looks more like 80 than 50.


Having (probably) narrowed the date to the 1880s the likely candidates would indeed be Annie & Clara's great grandparents Betty SUMNER or Mary TASKER (both married Halsalls). Betty is known to have been alive at the time and both would have been in their 80s

Brian
Dotty

Dang it...

So you still don't know who she is...

That was what I learned at my first visit to a North Meols monthly meeting - always put on the back of a photo who the people are because you know but others won't!

Dotty
Jane

but NEVER NEVER EVER use pen. Always use a very light pencil if you must write on photo's. Better still keep them safe in a proper album. Not a sticky page one either.
unsworth

when working with photo's invest in a good acid free ink pen archival quality. write lightly name date and place of photo. even better buy archival paper and photo corners mount photo on paper and journal it on the paper next to it. one of the things I love to do is create photo albums for seniors of their family photo's so they can be passed on to children and grandchildren. I made one for my nana my dad has it. been trying to get it for me for years. A good memory supply store for scrapbooking should have all the items. the cost is worth all the headaches you and/or descendents WON'T have.

       nmfhssouthport.myfreeforum.org Forum Index -> E to H
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum