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kaiello

Bigamy

If the divorce records have been destroyed for all of England, how would I go about finding out if my grandmother divorced her first husband before marrying my grandfather?
SeaCopRimmer

Presumably on the record for the second marriage it would state - "Previous marriage dissolved" - I know with my second marriage I had to prove that my first had been dissolved before I could re-marry.
kaiello

I should have stated that my grandmother left England and moved to Canada, but didn't get married until she moved to the US.  Any thoughts as to how I can verify the divorce, if there was one?
Jane

I suggest you look on TNA site. I would imagine they hold records of divorce. Not sure why you think records have been destroyed?

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/?source=home

Type divorce into the search box and I'm sure you will find an answer
SeaCopRimmer

If one/both marriages were in the United States I would think your nearest Court House will be able to help?
kaiello

Bigamy

My grandmother was married the first time 1902 in the Southport area and left England in October of 1911, without her husband or young child.  She lived in Montreal till 1914, then she and my grandfather moved to the US and were married there.  I read that England's divorce  records were destroyed after 20 years and could not be accessed.
SeaCopRimmer

I'm not at all sure but I think that checking on a UK Government website might help;  also try the ONS (Office of National Statistics) website;  there are also many legal websites which deal with divorce - I suppose it might well be a case of trial and error, but don't despair there's always someone to talk to Smile

Just found this site :
http://govt-files.com/uk-divorce-records.htm
kaiello

Bigamy

Seacop Rimmer,

I'm a Rimmer also, back about 3 generations.  Thank you for all the information.  This should be helpful, and may lead me to the records I'm searching for.
ray green

As Kathleen is safely residing in the USA I am sure she will not mind me mentioning that our great grandfathers were brothers!
kaiello

I don't mind a bit.  I'm so happy to make connections with new relations.  I'll email you, as I have a question about Henry that you may be able to answer.
Jane

Did you make contact via this forum?
kaiello

re: Green brothers

Jane,
I'm not quite sure of your question Ray posted a reply and said that our great grandfathers were brothers.  It is so nice to communicate with family members, no matter how distant.
Jane

I meant did you & Ray meet on the forum - or knew about the connection and met accidentally on the forum?

Not sure that makes sense? Basically how did you find each other & the family connection?

Just nosey Very Happy

I have made contact with distant relatives via the Internet and I certainly would never have found them otherwise
ray green

The brothers Green

I believe we made contact on Genes reunited. Kathleen thought maybe I could help her in her search for her Southport family, she now knows the truth that I am no help at all! That said it is nice to establish contact with the extended family. When I saw her queries on NMFHS I decided to reveal our dark secret!
Jane

I knew the Internet was wonderful Laughing
kaiello

re; Green brothers

Aha!  You are the same Raymond Green from Genes Reunited.  Well you have actually been quite helpful in previous posts.  Nice to be speaking again.
SeaCopRimmer

In response to your question regarding Divorce:

A search can be made at the Principal Registry of the Family Division in London (but there will be a charge - in 2005 it was £20)!   A telephone call can be made to them on 0207 947 7016/7017 - and am told they are very helpful.

Obviously as you are across the pond that is not a practical proposition but they may have a website - unfortunately not know (sorry)!

If you don't mind waiting I can do this for you when I visit my son in a couple of weeks time (he lives in Hertfordshire so London is a local call).   I will, of course, need full details if you want me to do this for you - pm me.

Incidentally, thanks are due to my neighbour Barbara for the above information (she works in a Solicitor's Office).
Dotty

And...

Well...for a thicko like me...what exactly is your relationship to each other?  The world really is a small place.  If either of you are members of the North Meols (Southport) Family History Society you could lodge a copy of your family trees with Jane.

Just a thought...  

Dotty  
ray green

I was hoping that one of you experts on NMFHS could put a name to our relationship. We have common great great grandparents, I believe. Henry Green of Ainsdale (1819) and Ellen Cropper of Crossens (c1821).
BrianG

ray green wrote:
I was hoping that one of you experts on NMFHS could put a name to our relationship. We have common great great grandparents, I believe. Henry Green of Ainsdale (1819) and Ellen Cropper of Crossens (c1821).

Hi Ray
That would be 3rd cousins, according to my little chart!
It's me, Brian from GenesR. You & I must therefore be 1/2 4th cousins, thanks to Ellen Cropper's father John doing the jiggly thing with my greatx3 grandmother Jenny Jackson.
Brian
Jane

Laughing the jiggy thing Laughing

That's really made me laugh. It seems to have gone on so much in those days when it 'didn't'

I used to belong to Genes but the only people who made contact were first cousins I already knew about Confused
BrianG

Jane wrote:
Laughing the jiggy thing Laughing

That's really made me laugh. It seems to have gone on so much in those days when it 'didn't'

especially with Jenny Jackson, if the records are anything to go by   Rolling Eyes

Quote:

I used to belong to Genes but the only people who made contact were first cousins I already knew about Confused

I've found a lot of new cousins via GenesR; ok many of them are 5th,6th cousins and beyond, but quite a few 3rd cousins, which is getting quite close, one previously unknown 2nd cousin, plus re-established contact with another 2nd cousin after over 40 years.  Most interesting discovery was a 3rd cousin, the late Welsh actress Myfanwy Talog, partner of actor David Jason.
B
ray green

Now that Brian has surfaced on NMFHS I really must share my experience.
I came across a "match" on GenesR of just two names, Green and Cropper, so I thought I would make enquiries and Brian (for it was he) said no luck as his Greens hailed from the Midlands but he'd check the Cropper link. In no time he informed me that we are both descended from Henry Cropper of Crossens. So far so terrific but then it got better. In short order Brian produced the most amazing document that lists every Green who ever lived in North Meols, Ainsdale and Formby! It is all cross-referenced every which way. My grandfather never mentioned that his brother was killed in action in the first war but Brian told me!
The bad news is that I should now retire from geneology as Brian has sorted my family tree, root and branch, in 24 hours! I suppose I could start on my wife's side, anybody know about the Brinhams of Padstow, Cornwall?
Thanks to MNFHS and Brian.
Jane

what wonderful tales. I have found on the whole that anyone from the family history world is friendly and very happy to share information or help find it.

I found a 4th cousin by putting the surname into Google - Dovey. He had a web site full of them. They were mostly found in the midlands/Warwickshire/Shropshire region. He lives in New Zealand Very Happy

And through his site I made contact with a 3rd cousin once removed. We exchanged emails, photo's, information and even managed to meet up and spend time in the Wolverhampton area where our branch had lived. Sadly she died too young from cancer but thankfully we had spent a few years in contact.

Now if only I could find any elusive Mogue family.................
BrianG

ray green wrote:
Now that Brian has surfaced on NMFHS I really must share my experience....
Thanks to MNFHS and Brian.

Ray you are being too  modest - I used your GenesR tree and the other one you kindly e-mailed over as a basis for a "big hit" on the censuses. It turned out to be like shooting fish in a bowl- there seems to be only one Green family in Ainsdale and it is "ours"!

You already had the death of Thomas Green in WW1 on your GenesR tree, so I guess you are referring to James Green. I'm 99% certain on this one as his late father is described as James a "nurseryman from Birkdale" which sort of matches the 1891 census ('Garden Man & Florist'). I have the book "Southport's Splendid Hearts" and whenever I get a new surname in the tree I go straight to it for possible WW1 casualties. There's another Birkdale Green in there I don't recognize. I'll e-mail you the details, see if you know him; I'll also send the extracts for Thomas & James as there are some more questions arising to which you may know the answers.

Oh and the report that I sent you was produced by "The Complete Genealogy Reporter" which just reads my gedcom file and does all the fancy stuff - it always gets a "wow" response!

There's still a lot to do.....and you have introduced me to my 4x great grandfather - Hamlet Cropper, wonderful name Laughing

B
SeaCopRimmer

..... and I suspect that the other Greens in Southport belong to my sister-in-law (her 'Greens' originated in Wigan though) Smile  Funnily enough they are all James, John James, John -------- mmmmmmmm
kaiello

Re: Brian's Green research

Brian,
Do you have any information on Henry Green, b. 1853, who married Margaret Lloyd (she was 12 years older than he)?  He was from the Ainsdale family and living in Birkdale in the 1881 census, but does not show up with the family after that.  I can't find any information on his death.  I do have information on two of Henry and Margaret's children, Margaret and Clara, if you would like.  Their son, John, died in childhood.
kaiello

Seacop Rimmer,
Thank you so much for the information.  I'll email you with the details.  It's so nice of you to offer to make the call.  This happens to be my favorite website because everyone has been so helpful and generous with sharing information.  I've made so much progress with my family research.  I do belong to the society and had sent in my information, but have not received any research information from what I submitted.  I did receive one Sandgrounder late last year and am looking forward to the next one.
BrianG

Re: Brian's Green research

kaiello wrote:
Brian,
Do you have any information on Henry Green, b. 1853, who married Margaret Lloyd (she was 12 years older than he)?  He was from the Ainsdale family and living in Birkdale in the 1881 census, but does not show up with the family after that.  I can't find any information on his death.  I do have information on two of Henry and Margaret's children, Margaret and Clara, if you would like.  Their son, John, died in childhood.
It's a mystery  to me what happened to him after 1881. His wife Margaret is on the 1891 census, described as "Married", not "Widowed" there are several other Widows on the page so it's not a case of handwriting interpretation. Maybe it is a mistake, but as you say there is nothing in the BMDs. Closest is a 35 year old in 1900, but "our" Henry would have been 37, and this family generally seems quite clued up when it comes to ages!

I'll send you via PM the same report I sent to Ray; it is based on Henry's father Henry. Thanks for the offer re Clara & Margaret - would be good to follow their story
Brian
kaiello

I noticed, when I finally found them on the census, that it says Married for Margaret, Henry's wife.  I had checked others on the page to see if a mistake was made.  Very curious.  I am quite certain that son, John died in 1882.  I will send you the write up that I have on my grandmother and include info on her sister, Margaret, in a PM.
SeaCopRimmer

I have been in touch with the Divorce Search place in London 0207 947 7016/7 (free call from my son's home) and the results are:

Their records do go back beyond 1900 - so divorce papers are not destroyed after a specific period of time;  
They will search a 10-year period (e.g. 1905-1915) and the cost is £40!  
They need as much information as you can give them (obviously the more information they have the more chance of finding the person/people concerned).

When I rang the ..7016 number it was an ansaphone asking for my name/address, etc., so I assume they just send out their information to you;  so I redialled using the ... 7017 number and spoke to a very nice lady;  not sure how it would work with USA details?   If you need any more help let me know Smile
kaiello

Gillies Divorce

Seacop,
Thank you so much for taking the time to make these calls!  This is very helpful and will allow me to narrow the times down to before my Grandmother left England, and also, when she made 2 return trips to Southport in 1935 and 1937.  She had lengthy stays both times, and we are now thinking that she may have returned to file for divorce, and then had to return to finalize things in 1937.  
Again, if there is anything you need this side of the pond, please let me know.  Thanks again.

Regards,
Kathleen
Dotty

WOW

Well, I've missed most of this thread but I don't know how.

It's fascinating...I hope all is revealed!

Dotty  

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