Jane
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Churchtown pubsI have been asked -
Do you know which is older?....the Bold or Hesketh in Churchtown.....I'm looking for dates or evidence if you can point me in that direction?
I have looked in Baileys, Peter Aughtons book, John Cotteral's Churchtown book and can't find the answer.
Can anyone help?l
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SeaCopRimmer
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Was Geoff Wright, Jnr writing a book about Southport Pubs? Maybe he would know - if anybody knws how to get in touch with him?
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Jane
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He is always researching a book but not many of them get published 
No idea how to get in touch with him either
Does the Annuls of Southport have anything in?
I am very surprised at it not being in one of the history books I have
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SeaCopRimmer
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I've had a look at the Annals of Southport but the only mention is of 'Duke'William Sutton having taken over the Black Bull prior to building his 'Folly' at South Hawes. Am off to LRO at Preston tomorrow so will see if they have anything there?
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sutcliffe
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In 'Southport A Century Ago' by Geoff Wright, there is the following
"The Bold Arms Hotel ( ......) now in the the proprietorship of Mr. William Dinwoodie was erected by Mr Thomas Mawdsley in 1832". It is later stated that "since the removal of the Scarisbrick Hotel this is the oldest hotel in town." At that time the Scarisbrick was being demolished to be replaced by a new building.
Hope this helps,
Paul Sutcliffe
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SeaCopRimmer
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I think the Hotel referred to here is the Bold Hotel on Lord Street.
John Cotterall says in his 'Churchtown' book that the township had at least one hostelry as far back as the 12th Century! The Bold Arms (known as The Griffin) was opened in 1637 and Duke Sutton was the inn-keeper in 1794 but I'm sure that it was open before that! Ooh I love a mystery - it's bugging me now - will keep searching.
Incidentally Alan Joyce's book "Duke's Folly" also mentions both these inns as being very old when the Duke opened his South Hawes Hotel 
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DottieV
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Sea cop is right it refers to the Bold in Southport.
I have a snippet that says
'Over 800 years ago, there is mention of an inn in the village.
In the title deeds of Robert de Meols from the reign of King John (1199-1216) it states there was indeed ‘a place of entertainment’ but the present two inns date back to the 17th century.'
A quote from Bland
'1793 .. Eight persons all over 60 years of age, accidentallly met in one of the rooms of the Hesketh Arms Churchtown, Two of them were alive on June 3th 1809 viz, William Bond aged 99 and Richard Wright aged 80.'
Not sure of the relevance of this???
Also
At one time the Bold was popularly known as the ‘Middle House’ by locals.
This was because there used to be three ‘Churchtown Inns’
An inn called the Farmers Arms occupied the site around where the Churchtown Post Office was.
So the Bold was between that and the Hesketh and was known as ‘the Middle House’
Keep on digging Gladys.
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Jane
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Yes definitely The Bold on Lord Street that was built by Thomas Mawdesley. It is the oldest building still standing on Lord Street - 1832.
Where did you get that first snippet from Dotty V?
Maybe it would make more sense to be looking for when The Griffin & Black Bull opened. Or were they known as anything else?
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Dotty
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Errr...I'm sure Bez will correct me if I'm wrong but I think the inn was actually the house that stands next to the old PO, to its left as you look at it. It now has a sign advertising a local plumber on it.
I went on a Churchtown Village Trail and it was pointed out as being an old 'ale house'. 
Dotty
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Jane
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that's the one Dotty.
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Bez
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| SeaCopRimmer wrote: |
John Cotterall says in his 'Churchtown' book that the township had at least one hostelry as far back as the 12th Century! The Bold Arms (known as The Griffin) was opened in 1637 and Duke Sutton was the inn-keeper in 1794 but I'm sure that it was open before that! |
William Sutton was the Innkeeper of The Black Bull which is now the Hesketh Arms. Prior to building The Duke's Folly at South Hawes, he not only leased the 2 cottages by Meols Hall gates for additional accomodation, but also built an Assembly Room with stables beneath on what is now The Plantation in front of St Cuthbert's Church. He then took out a lease for 3 lives (his children) for the building from the Hesketh estate.
And yes, The Farmer's Arms was the building to the immediate left of the old post office building - I think it closed in 1932 or thereabouts.
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Jane
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I have heard back from the original inquirer. He has found a little information in john Cotterall's Churchtown book.
Page 187...
"It is noted a "Local" as far back as the twelfth century"....So that will be older than all 3 of the pubs...
Page 188....
"The Griffin opened in 1637......the Bold and Hesketh became named after the wedding of the two family's on 13/9/1759"....So that will be 250 years ago this year.....
Page 191.....
"A stone was found in the stables dating the owners at 1702".....
I'm still working on it.....
So that tells us all a little more 
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SeaCopRimmer
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This was said a couple of weeks ago
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