| Archive for nmfhssouthport.myfreeforum.org North Meols (Southport) Family History Society |
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesI am looking for anyone who might have known the edgar family when they lived in southport in 1919. William the father was a car builder. H is wifes name was mary ellen, Her maiden name was ashcroft. They were from west derby. Even a cemetary where they maybe buried would be helpful. They lived at St. Cuthberts Street, One son who came to australia lived in French street. |
||
| Dotty |
Good huntingHi KaySadly, I can't help with your search but I'm sure that someone will be along soon. We used to have a car factory in Southport The Vulcan Works I think...maybe that's where William worked. Someone may know that too! TTFN Dotty 
|
||
| kay edgar |
Hi Dotty, My father in law worked at the Vulcan car factory, this has rung a bell, maybe his father worked there. In my father inlaws reference from the car factory they were unable to keep him on due to lack of work. It was not long after that that Percy Edgar came to Australia.
So has that car factory closed down. William Edgar was a coach builder before he must have gone to car building. :grin: |
||
| Dotty |
Wow...Hey, I got something right....yippee!The Vulcan works closed many years ago, although the building itself is still there and being used for something else. We had a brill talk about the cars and the factory several years ago. The term 'coach builder' refers, I think, not to the building of coaches but more to a style of metal working...no doubt someone will be along to put me right should I be wrong (not an unusual occurence). So the skills of William and Percy would be just the job - so to speak! Dotty  
|
||
| kay edgar |
Hi Dotty thank you for the information about the vulcan factory. I will pass that onto my husband. I am so grateful that you are finding the time to reply to my emails.
The forum members sound like a very informative and happy bunch of people. I will be looking forward to more emails from you and other members
|
||
| SeaCopRimmer |
Hi
The Vulcan Works became Brockhouse during the war years (my father worked there) and, as Dotty says, the buidling is still there. My Uncle and a cousin were also coach builders and worked at Woodwards on the Formby by-pass (for local folk, it's where Tesco's is now). I know of both Ashcrofts and Edgars in Southport now - is there likely to be any 'current' family members? |
||
| Dotty |
Small world...There were a family of Edgars that lived over the road from us in Leybourne Avenue, Birkdale in the 50s and 60s. There were 3 children - 2 boys, Leslie & Brian, and Suzanne. I will look up the electoral roles and send you the parents names...who knows they may be yours!
Dotty on the ball... 
|
||
| unsworth |
THIS SOUNDS THE WILLIAM YOU ARE LOOKING FOR
1901 England Census Name: William Edgar Age: 36 Estimated birth year: abt 1865 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary E Gender: Male Where born: Burscough, Lancashire, England Civil parish: West Derby Ecclesiastical parish: Edge Hill St Cyprian County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 8 Bremner/ Bremmer St, Occupation: Coach, Maker Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: West Derby, Western ED, institution, or vessel: 25 Neighbors: Household schedule number: 173 Household Members: Name Age Mary E Edgar 34 Percy Edgar 9 Robert W Edgar 12 Sidney Edgar 6 William Edgar 36 William Edgar 2 THIS IS HIM TOO THE YEAR IS WRONG IT SAYS ON THE ORIGINAL THAT HE IS 26 1891 England Census Name: William Edgar Age: 36 Estimated birth year: abt 1855 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary E Gender: Male Where born: Burrough, Lancashire, England Civil parish: West Derby Ecclesiastical parish: West Derby St Mary the Virgin County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 19 Empress RD Occupation: Coach Builder Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: West Derby (Municipal) ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age Mary E Edgar 24 Robert W Edgar 2 William Edgar 36 Maggie M Watson 21 Mary D Watson 23 England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 Birth, Marriage, & Death PreviewName: William Edgar Year of Registration: 1865 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Ormskirk County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1887 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference EDGAR William ASHCROFT Mary E Edge Hill, St. Mary Liverpool 2043WD/12/429 England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983 Refine your search All Birth, Marriage, & Death Results Name Year of Registration Quarter of Registration Spouse's Surname DISTRICT County Mary Ellen Ashcroft 1887 Jul-Aug-Sep West Derby Lancashire Jessie Beattie 1887 Jul-Aug-Sep West Derby Lancashire William Edgar 1887 Jul-Aug-Sep West Derby Lancashire William Henry Tyrer 1887 Jul-Aug-Sep West Derby Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 579 |
||
| unsworth |
1881 England Census
Name: William Edgar Age: 16 Estimated birth year: abt 1865 Relation: Son Father's name: Robert Mother's name: Ellen Gender: Male Where born: Scarisbrick, Lancashire, England Civil parish: West Derby County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Gill Moss (Stone Bridge Cottage) Education: Employment status: Occupation: Apprentice Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: West Derby (Rural) ED, institution, or vessel: 28 Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age Ann Edgar Ellen Edgar 35 Estimated birth year: abt 1846 Where born: Scarisbrick, Lancashire, England Robert Edgar 36 Estimated birth year: abt 1845 Where born: Walton, Lancashire, England Occupation: Farmers Lab Sarah Edgar 13 Thomas J. Edgar 12 William Edgar 16 1891 England Census Name: Thomas J Edgar Age: 22 Estimated birth year: abt 1869 Relation: Son Father's name: Robert Mother's name: Ellen Gender: Male Where born: West Derby, Lancashire, England Civil parish: West Derby Ecclesiastical parish: Church County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: West Derby (Rural) ED, institution, or vessel: 24 Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age Ann Edgar 11 Ellen Edgar 45 Robert Edgar 46 Sarah Edgar 24 Thomas J Edgar 22 |
||
| kay edgar |
Edgar and Ashrcoft FamiliesHi Dotty, thank you for the census information, I had some but not all of it.There were actually 4 sons, Robert who died at age 14, Sidney 24 1919,Percy who came to Australia., William Robert who I need to find. Sidney died in a Union Workhouse, in Southport I have just received his death certificate and this is why I have joined the forum site. I also need to find burial information for William Snr and Mary Ellen. I am really enjoying chatting to you by keyboard. You make my day with your messages, and I am really appreciate you helping me in my search. No wonder people take 30 years to complete their family trees. :grin:
|
||
| unsworth |
Hi Kay Susan alias Unsworth here let me do little checking on my site for William Robert I will check for deaths on William and Ellen Too | ||
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesHi Susan thank you for your help. I can't believe how helpful everyone is.:eek: |
||
| Dotty |
WorkhouseHello KayI'm glad that you're getting a good response to your searches. Unsworth is a fantastic help with all her census info. It's funny you should mention a workhouse in Southport because not so long ago we were debating on the forum whether Southport had one...we had info that confirmed that we did indeed have one and now you come along and have a death cert which proves it. On that point, what is the address for the workhouse on the death cert, please? Speak to you soon, Dotty
|
||
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesHi Dotty On the When and where died part it has Male Pavilion Union Workhouse U.D. His address was 12 St. Cuthberts Road Southport U.D. and was of no occupation. He died of Influenza and Broncho Pnuemonia.It also says that the father was the informant as well. The registration district was Ormskirk County of Lancaster. This was in 1919. 12 St. Cuthberts Road was the fathers address as well. It is pretty confusing to say the least.Kay 
|
||
| Jane |
I will check that address out when I am next in the library. I can have a look in street directories. but it won't be until next week | ||
| unsworth |
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983
Name: Ellen Edgar Estimated birth year: abt 1844 Year of Registration: 1912 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Age at Death: 68 DISTRICT: Blackburn County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 378 England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983 Name Year of Registration Quarter of Registration Spouse's Surname DISTRICT County Margaret Aspinwall 1864 Oct-Nov-Dec Ormskirk Lancashire Robert Edgar 1864 Oct-Nov-Dec Ormskirk Lancashire Ellen Leadbetter 1864 Oct-Nov-Dec Ormskirk Lancashire James Sumner 1864 Oct-Nov-Dec Ormskirk Lancashire |
||
| Bez |
St Cuthbert's Road is alongside St Cuthbert's Church (where Churchtown School is). I think you can say that it was his home address and the Workhouse was elsewhere. | ||
| Bez |
There is a possibility that this might refer to the first Infirmary on Virginia Street.
Many hospitals started life as workhouses or the infirmaries to workhouses (as is the case with Hope Hospital in Manchester). http://64.233.183.104/search?q=ca...ct=clnk&cd=9&client=opera |
||
| bobg |
In Seed's 1914-15 Directory W Edgar, Motor Builder is listed as living at 12 St Cuthbert Rd. It only shows the head of the household, no others at the same address.
Bob |
||
| unsworth |
You know Jane that address sounds familiar. could it be the old school house? you know that building has been many things since it was erected and it would not surprise me to find out it had been used for a church poor house. | ||
| SeaCopRimmer |
It was a school up until 1889 when the 'new' school was built and known as St Cuthbert's Church of England School - I can't imagine that it would have the facilities to be a workhouse? I think No. 12 was one of the old Alms Houses (now pensioners' cottages) - will check next time I'm down there. | ||
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesThanks Jane for the street lookup offer. I am in no great hurry, the search has been taking a long time and a bit longer won't make any difference. I am finding the geneaolgy community a group of very helpful people. :grin:Kay |
||
| Bez |
The original school building (now the Conservative Club) would logically be number 1 St Cuthbert's Road. As SeaCop says, number 12 would most likely have been where the old folks bungalows are now. | ||
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesHi Bev as I live in Australia and not familiar with the area, could you please explain to me what you have found. I have never left Perth, so only go on any information on the telly or the net. I get a bit envious when my husband watches the antique road show and we see some of your country, and the Time Team, is there a map I can download and follow or can one be emailed to me. :?:Kay |
||
| Bez |
There are old maps available on line but Google do a fairly up to date aerial photo thing called Google Earth which will give you current locations of things.
If you try this you need to home in on St Cuthbert's church (don't know the post code, unfortunately) and St Cuthbert's Road runs alongside the church with the former school on the opposite corner. That is to say, the church is on one corner and the former school is on the other side of the road. |
||
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesHi Bez, I have just received an email in reponse to one I sent to the Library, and received a reply from the History Unit of the Atkinson Library, A Matthew Tink has said that St. Cuthberts Road still exists but was called at one time School Road, but he can't find French Street. I have seen French street on a Map, but will have to go back through my records and try and find it. It was close to a port,from memory. The union workhouse still causing grief. He says that the only one was at Ormskirk. It seems that peter from the workhouse website maybe correct in saying that southport workhouse records were destroyed by fire. My request as certainly become a talking point. The Vulcan factory was based very near to St. Cuthberts Road, at Crossens. Please keep up the good work all the members who are following this request. :grin:Kay |
||
| unsworth |
take a gander at this site it will give you a rough idea about churchtown [northmeols of old]
http://www.northmeols.merseyside.org/trail/index.htm |
||
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesThank you to the sender unsworth for the web page. Is it possible that Sidney Edgar and maybe William Edgar are buried in St cuthberts Church yard, or is there another cemetary nearby. William edgar was a coach builder, on his marriage certificate, then on the death certificate of Sidney Edgar he is a Motor Car Builder. Maybe William worked at the Coachhouse before he went into the car industry. The history of this town is amazing. I just wish I could visit one day. :grin:Kay |
||
| Bez |
Re: Edgar Family and Ashcroft families
I've never heard of French Street either - may be Liverpool or Preston - they both had a workhouse and are/were both ports. The Vulcan factory is about a mile and a ½ north of St Cuthbert's Road. Google do maps as well! http://maps.google.co.uk/maps |
||
| Bez |
Re: Edgar Family and Ashcroft families
Not St Cuthbert's. |
||
| Jane |
I had a spare 5 minutes in town today so called in the reference library and looked up 12 St Cuthbert's Road in the 1919 electoral register
Mary Ellen Edgar & William Edgar No idea if that helps at all. |
||
| Dotty |
ObitMaybe when you find one or both of their deaths then a search could be made in the local newspaper for obituaries and/or funeral write-up. You can get quite a lot of info from the paper.Dotty :idea: |
||
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesMy apologies, I have found Percy Edgars health insurance record, it was Southhampton. Sorry for giving misleading information on French Street. I have got so rapt up in looking for this family and have now made a blunder on a city. The southport information is correct though. The folks of this web site must be wondering about us Aussies who can't read correct information.
Kay |
||
| SeaCopRimmer |
Probably 'cos you're reading things upside down  Glad it's sorted though!
|
||
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesThanks Bez, thats one less cemetary for me to check. :
|
||
| Dotty |
Now, now...It's a rare person who can say they never made a mistake.Fret not...all's well. Dotty
|
||
| kay edgar |
Edgar Family and Ashcroft familiesThanks Guys, for the forgivness
Kay |
||
| jrimmer |
Re: Workhouse
As coincidences go: I was trawling through the Lancashire Records Office catalogus looking for something else and noticed two items of correspondence about a Workhouse and possible sale of some land in 1868 - was it Southport or Chorley?? DDHK/7/4/36 Copy letter from Henry M Vane, Secretary to the Charity Commission, to W H Talbot at Southport concerning Hodgson's Charity and the sale of Workhouse property; 2 Apr 1868 Item 1868 DDHK/7/4/37 Letter from E Stanton, Clerk to Chorley Poor Law Union, to W H Talbot of the Parsonage, Southport, concerning the possible sale of Workhouse property, referring to the letter from the Charity Commission at DDHK 7/4/36 above; 8 Apr 1868 |
||