Hodge

HodgePodge · Hodge

I thought I'd add my primary line of Hodge.. as I'm a little surprised it isn't here already.

I have a LOT of info on this line, the basic structure coming from legwork done by Bernulf Llewellyn Hodge in the 1930s.

The earliest directly traceable ancestor is William Hodge, born c1580 and his wife, Dorothy who had 4 sons and 2 daughters. William, Dorothy and 2 of the sons died within weeks of each other in 1639, leaving just Thomas, Hugh and their married daughters behind (this was the only family of Hodges in North Meols at the time). All Hodges Southport Hodges are descended from William and Dorothy through their son, Thomas (Hugh had no family).

My line carries on through Thomas to William (1640-1671), Thomas (1668-1721), William (1698-1756), Henry (christened William, 1720-1797), John (1762-1794), Thomas (1794-1870), Edward (1836-1896), John (b1876), Edward (1909-1977), John Brian (1937), Fiona (1968).

The family group of these that I have most information on (except my own) is that of John (1762-1794) and his son, Thomas (1794-1870) and his family.

John had a little land and supplimented his income by fishing. On 19th December 1794, he went out fishing and was drowned. His body was recovered 4 months later and he was buried 15th April 1795.

At the time of the tragedy, my GGG grandfather, Thomas, was just a couple of months old, being baptised 2nd September 1794.

The family fell on hard times, with the mother, Mary (née Wright) being widowed with 4 children aged 11, 9, 4 and 2 months. Her elder son, John (1790) went to sea in the Napleoonic Wars, it's unclear whether this was out of choice, or if he were pressganged, but I suspect the latter given the fact that his family would've been hugely dependant on him to support them. When he reached working age, Thomas went to work on his uncle William Hodges' farm at what is now the junction of Alma Rd and Liverpool Rd in Birkdale (the farm buildings still exist as Birkdale Mews). On tithe maps Thomas' name is marked in brackets after Williams on all the fields... only the farm buildings and garden remained under William's name alone.

While still just a boy, Thomas would travel to the market in Liverpool to sell the farm produce and on one such occasion, he was pressganged into the navy. He spent a night in custody before escaping and returning to Birkdale.

There is a report of the pressgang in Liverpool taking various ordinary men off the street, which was technically illegal (only sailors were really supposed to be targeted), the illegally pressed men were subsequently released and I wonder if Tom was actually one of these men.

Tom's uncle William was the same man who leased a fishing stall in Birkdale and, after losing his sons at sea shortly after leasing the fishing stall, had his daughters added to it instead.

In 1814, Tom married Ellen Marshall, and planted an Elm tree on the Birkdale farm to mark the occasion. A cutting from this tree was later taken by EA Hodge, Tom's grandson, and planted on his land at Birkdale Priory.

Tom Hodge was known locally as "Gred Tom" because of his imressive stature (not sure what happened to those genes, but none came our way!)

All of Tom & Ellen's children were born on the Birkdale farm. The eldest ones were baptised at St Cuthbert's, with the family using Christ Church, Lord St after its completion in 1821 (their son, John Hodge, was the first child to be baptised at Christ Church)

When uncle William died in 1836, it seems Tom was either unable to pay for the lease on the valuable land at Birkdale, or was no entitled to take it over, because in the same year, he and the family moved to virgin land on Heathy Lane on the Moss. This farm remained in the family until 1929, when Tom's great grandson left.

Tom and Ellen's youngest children were Edward and Henry, twins. Edward is my own GG grandfather, Henry went on to become a successful businessman and mayor of Southport in 1893 (briefly, as he died 3 weeks into office).

Another of Tom & Ellen's children, William, had a number of children, including EA Hodge (Edward Albert) who was the sole Birkdale politician to support the merging of Southport and Birkdale. EA Hodge was a builder, and spent some time contributing to the construction of Chicago. He also went on a long clipper voyage (the sort of thing he was prone to do when he wanted a break from the stresses of work) and befriended the ship's mate, stepping up to help when the ship's carpenter fell ill. This mate was Joseph Conrad.

EA Hodge had shares in what became the Classic Cinema, which itself stood on the land of Henry Hodge's former home (I suspect Henry/ his family had a hand in the redevelopment of that land and the shares were sold to friends and family). The street behind is called Hodge St after Henry, because of his ownership of the site.

Once EA had amassed his small fortune, he bought the priory on Weld Rd (we have photos of him in the grounds). This had been the convent before the Victorian one was built further up Weld Rd (and now relocated to the modern convent across the road). EA used some of the land on the Priory to build 3 or 4 large houses in the 1800's, which he sold. The houses and the priory itself still stand in their own cul-de-sac, Priory Grove.

Many of EA Hodge's nieces and nephews were born/moved to Canada and America, and I have copies of letters sent from these people when EA shared an inheritance amongst them during the depression.

Aside from photos of EA Hodge, we have a number of photos of Henry and his children, and one of EA Hodge's mother, Elizabeth Wright, who died in 1864... but the best photo of all is that of Tom and Ellen, taken 1869 at the latest (the year of Ellen's death). Tom and Ellen were buried at Scarisbrick parish church.

Germaine

Hi I don't have any Hodges as yet in my tree but found your post very interesting.
Thankyou for sharing it.
Germaine
Smile

Dotty · WOW

I had a milkman called Hodge once...

Thanks for sharing that info with us HP.

Dotty

HodgePodge

Thanks for the feedback. I know I ramble... so I may as well ramble for a purpose and give others some info on the background.

I have most North Meols names in my line, and have attached most Hodges who remained local to Southport in my tree... so anyone with a link to Hodges can probably find the connection back to William and Dorothy through this research.

I've established the link to Charles and Henry Hodge, who died in the Eliza Fernley Lifeboat disaster.. tbey are distant cousins.

I also have a bit of interesting info on William's family of the early-mid 1600's. William had a smallholding on Rowe Lane, he was fined for none attandance at church at easter in the 1630's... and shortly after the mass deaths in the family Hugh was up in court for fighting with Thomas Rimmer, Coneyman (Thomas Rimmer was also struck by a local woman in the same period, so perhaps Hugh was goaded by this troublemaker!!).

According to Peter Aughton's book, North Meols & Southport, the Hodges are one of just 3 families who have survived in North Meols since the 1300's (William Hoggeson paid his poll tax in 1381). Sadly, I can't bridge the gap between 1381 and 1580, by which time William Hoggeson had just that one surviving descendant.

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HodgePodge

Here are some of the photos.

What remains of the Birkdale farm (digitally adjusted to remove the parked cars!)

Gred Tom & Ellen

The Priory, home of EA Hodge:

baxtersp

Very interesting HodgePodge

I have William and Dorothy/Doritie as my 11th great grandparents, at least at the minute anyway.

It looks like I'm descended from two of the sons of their son Thomas (circa 1620), William and Roger, both on my mother's line.

Thomas (bap. 6th Dec 1668) is my 8th great grandfather, and then one of my lines goes through his daughter Dorrathy (bap. 20th Sept 1702).

This makes William (1698-1756) my 7th great granduncle at the minute, and currently I have him marrying Ellisabeth Rymer 6th Nov 1722, and later Jennet Boond (my 7th great grandaunt in her own right) 19th Feb 1751.

I don't have William married in 1720, so I hadn't thought of attaching "William s. of Willi: Hodges 27 Nov 1720" to him. I don't seem to have him that William (or Henry) on my tree at all at the minute, and as he is a relative of sorts it would be nice to get this line sewn up properly.

I'll have to look over your post again in the morning, it's getting a bit late to start on something new tonight. Time for bed.

Steve

HodgePodge

William Hodges 1698-1756 had 3 children with first wife (unknown), Elizabeth in 1718, William (known as Henry) in 1720 and John in 1722. Their mother probably died in childbirth with John in 1722, as William then married Elizabeth Rymer later the same year, with whom he had a further 10 children. Remarriage was often quicker when there was one or more very young children requiring care.

In 1718, there is evidence of only one William Hodges in North Meols at a likely age to be fathering children.

The memorial board in St Cuthbert's, Churchtown lists the primary line of heirs from Tudor William to William c1850... on this, William (Henry) is listed as heir of William, heir of Thomas, heir of William, heir of Thomas, heir of Roger, heir of William.

This board was completed after the events, as Thomas' birth is misisng, as it is from the baptismal records... and techincally, Roger never did inherit, as he was buried 2 months before his father.

So the board says that William's eldest son was Roger, who's estate went to brother, Thomas. His primary heir was his eldest son William, who passed the estate to Thomas. His heir was William, who also had eldest son, William (Henry). Then there's a gap... where someone has lost track of the inheritance, but I think I can explain it. William (Henry) had 3 sons: William 1749, Peter 1752 and John (my ancestor) 1762. The eldest, William, inherited (he's the uncle Gred Tom worked for, and it explains how William could afford prime farm land and a fishing stall). However, all 3 of William's sons were drowned while out fishing, which left him no male heirs and the estate passed to his brother, Peter/his heirs (I don't know if Peter died before William in 1837... not 1836 as I said earlier). Peter's eldest son was Henry, who had no sons, so I think Henry's brother, Peter, inherited who passed his estate to Thomas (listed on the board). Thomas drowned without issue, and I don't know of any Hodge nephews, so I wouldn't like to commit myself at the moment about William, the last listed on the board.

Bernulf Llewellyn Hodge (Henry Hodge's grandson) researched it extensively from the original documents in the 1930's, and I spent some time checking it and thinking I'd found errors in the line, only to finally realise he'd been right all along!

At least I'm now as confident as one can be that the line's accurate.

Dotty · Nice pics...

Hi HP

I don't think you ramble...it's all good stuff. When I mentioned my milkman I was only jumping on the bandwagon.

Somewhere in the back of my mind I think I have a Hodge too. Just one more thing for me to look up later...

HAND

Dotty flower

HodgePodge

Sorry.. I lie... William's unknown wife can't have been mother of John... as he was borbaptised 6th Jan 1722, which was 2 months AFTER William's marriage to Elizabeth Rymer... (new year was still happening in March until 1752, so the marriage was before the batism).

So William had a son and a daughter with unknown wife, and then 11 with Elizabeth Rymer. My ancestor William (Henry) was the only son from this first marriage.

HodgePodge

One other thing, while I think of it....

Can anyone shed any light on what might've killed 4 members of the one family in spring 1639 when no other family seemed to be falling victim to any sinister disease (not even Rimmers, who are always a good name to turn to for establishing local trends).

If smallpox, cholera etc were running through the area, others would be dropping off like flies as well.... so unless William poisened the family with a bad chicken or something... I can't think why they all decided to depart at the same time!

Jane

I would guess something like smallpox etc. Have you found their burials? I wonder if there was a local outbreak of something nasty if it would be mentioned in the parish register? You never know. Sometimes the person filling in the details added all kinds of goodies to help us along

HodgePodge

I have the one-name extracts for Hodge, Howard, Rimmer, Johnson, Jackson & Marshall and only the Hodge one seems to have this cluster of deaths. In fact, there are only 2 Rimmer deaths that year! As my first thought was to check Rimmers for any pattern, there being so many of them!

There are no details of cause of death for these Hodges... though not surprising given the fact that it was 1639.

One of these days I'll get to Lancs record office and see if I can find anything in the manorial records... but Preston's not the most convenient place for me to get to (or into) as I don't know it very well (I use Liverpool record office a bit, but the powers that be didn't see fit to send North Meols records there!!).

So what could wipe out half the Hodges in 2 months and leave the rest of the community intact???

SeaCopRimmer

If these people were over the age of, say, 8 then they could have all died in fishing incidents? Looking back through the burials I have there were many disasters on this coast and if they were old enough to row then they may have all gone off together - it's just a thought and might explain why only that family were affected Question

HodgePodge

the problem is, they weren't buried together.... though of course this doesn't rule out drowning, as bodies sometiems took a while to turn up (such as GGGG grandfather, John, who was washed up 3 months later).

However, Dorothy also died in the same period, and I wouldn't expect a woman of about 60 to be out fishing (especially when there were 6 men in the family).

The full details of the dead family are:

14th Jan 1639; Roger, son of William
19th Feb 1639; Doritie, wife of William
27th Feb 1639; William, son of William
8th March 1639; William

Roger was 35, William jr 23 and William and Dorothy about 60 or so.

Though the church board implies Roger was the eldest son, I can't be 100% sure of this (the board is clearly based on church records).

The baptisms of the family listed in the records were:
Roger 24th Feb 1604
Hugh 18th Feb 1612
William 3rd March 1616
Elizabeth 6th Sept 1620
Elline 24th Aug 1625

We know that there was also the son, Thomas, the only one to have children carrying the Hodges name. In 1664 (hearth tax returns), he and Hugh were still alive. Hugh in Churchtown, Thomas in Rowe. This suggests that Thomas was the eldest surviving son, as William and Dorothy's property had been in Rowe Lane... so Thomas clearly inherited the land and Hugh established his home in nearby churchtown.

As there are significant gaps between the children, especially between Roger & Hugh, I believe Thomas was either 2nd after Roger, or was born before 1604, as the records weren't very well kept until 1604 (william and Dorothy's marriage isn't listed either... so there may well have been a birth of Thomas shortly afterwards and both not recorded). Looking at Rimmer records, baptisms are only occasional between 1595 and 1604, with the exception of 1601, which was well documented.

4-5 years between the others are large gaps as well.... perhaps this indicates stillbirths or pregancies not going full term.

Before his untimely death, Roger fathered an illegitimate child, Ellin in 1633, but I assume she didn't carry his surname.

HodgePodge · More on Gred Tom

I wads researching Gred Tom & Ellen a little more last night, trying to establish any links with their marriage witnesses etc. I had always taken Bernulf's research as read that Tom, Ellen & family moved to Heathy Lane, Halsall in the late 1830's after uncle William's death (and assumed that Tom didn't inherit the farm/couldn't afford the lease).

Their marriage witnesses were John Andow and Peter Rimmer, so concentrating on the one with the less common name, I found a John Aindow marrying Isabella Jackson in 1810. Though John seems to have died before 1841, there was Isabella Aindow and family (including children named John & Isabella) in North End, Birkdale. This property was next door to Tom & Ellen Hodge, who were 2 properties from Birkdale Mill. This establishes that Tom & Ellen were still on the Alma Rd/Liverpool Rd farm in 1841.

In 1851 they had moved to Heathy Lane on the Moss, so it seems that Tom DID take over William's farm, and probably left because of Blundell's plans to redevelop the land for Birkdale Park... perhaps offered Tom a good deal on the new farm to encourage him to move before his lease was up.

I have found that a lease for 3 lives was drawn up for William Hodges of Birkdale in 1807 and is held in Liverpool Record Office. I think Tom's uncle was the only William Hodges with land in Birkdale at that time, and this should refer to the farm, not the fishing stall (which had been drawn up only 8 years previously). I'm hoping that this lease will have Tom's name on it, possibly redrawn to include him after he came to work for William (who had no sons after the drownings in 1799). Tom was 13 in 1807, so it would probably coincide with the time he became a fully fledged worker on the farm.

I have also found out more on the Transportation of one of Ellen Marshall's grandparents, but I'll post that in the appropriate thread.

HodgePodge

I lied about William having no sons after the drownings, he did of course. When his 3 eldest sonds drowned in 1799, and Henry Blundell redrew the lease for him, the lives on the lease were children Peter, Nanny and Betty. A son, Robert was born between Peter and Nanny, so I have always assumed that he died, else why place younger daughters on the lease instead of him.

The St Cuthberts registers list William and Betty having children starting with Henry in 1778 followed by William, John, Peter, Robert, Nanny, Betty & Betty... all born South Haws except William born in Little London and the last Betty, born Birkdale in 1795.

This led me to believe that the family moved to Birkdale before the fishing stall lease was taken out.

In 1796 a William Hodges married Betty Andow, and there are a few births after this date to William and Elizabeth/Betty, all in Little London. The firstborn of each sex were named Richard and Jenny, which fits with the parents of an appropriate match for William. Therefore myself and other researchers have always assumed that these births are to a different couple of the same name, and that the earlier William and Betty had stopped breeding by 1796. The last Little London birth to William & Elizabeth is 1807. If they are 2 different couples, 11 years seems early to stop breeding, but then if they were all to the earlier couple, 29 years is a long time!!

The William and Betty/Elizabeth to marry in 1796 have always been credited as being grandparents to Charles Hodge, the coxwain of the Eliza Fernley, through their son, Richard.

I went to view the lease at Liverpool Record Office last week, and made some interesting discoveries.

The lease was for tenament number 7, made out to William Hodges and his sons, Peter 25, Robert 18 and Richard 8. On the front of the lease, in faint red pencil was "Haws Houses ????? (unreadable) out of lease after death of Richard Hodge Nov 12/60"... or at least that's what I thought it said.

When I searched the BMD index, there was no Richard Hodge's death in 1860, but there was one in the Dec quarter of 1869, which would fit if the bottom of the 9 was missing from the note on the lease, and what I'd read as a 0 was atually a 9.

Peter and Robert match closely in age to the sons I know William had (though I've found lease ages often differ a little from baptisms). This establishes that the lease did belong to William from my branch (he's the only known William Hodges with land in Birkdale at the time anyway). But what it also establishes is that William had another son, Richard, of whom I knew nothing.

Is this Richard the one baptised in 1797 to William and Elizabeth, born in Little London? or did our William and Betty have one or more children not baptised at St Cuthberts?

When searching the census, there is only one Richard Hodge who fits in age, this being the father of Coxwain Charles.

From censuses, we know that Charles' father died between 1861 & 1871.

While at the Record Office I also leafed through some of the probate books, primarily checking to see if Thomas had left a will 1870-71, but also noting any other Lancs Hodges that I came across. When I got home and rechecked these notes, I found one of them was for Richard Hodge, husband of Margaret of Pink Cottage, Upper King St, and father of James, fisherman living in Liverpool at the time. The death date was 12th Nov 1869.

This proves that Richard Hodge, father of Charles, was son of William and Betty, grandson of Henry Hodges (baptised William) and Anne Blundell.

We know that Richard, son of William, was listed on the lease of 1807. We know that this Richard had 2 brothers who were born before the marriage of William Hodges and Betty Andow. We know that this Richard died 12th Nov 1860, which matches the death date of Charles' father who lived in Upper King St.

One interesting factor is that Richard's age in census returns usually matches closer to the age of the 8 year old in the lease than the Richard born 1797 in Little London, which may indicate 2 Richards. Though I have no record of a death for one of them.

Also, Richard, father of Charles, described himself as born Southport, not Birkdale, which leads me to think that the family did not permanantly move to Birkdale from 1795 as first assumed.

There are a few possible theories here:

1. There is only one couple named William and Betty, who are the parents of all the children in the baptism records, but didn't marry until 1796. However, this would mean Betty was bearing children for 29 years until she was 51.

2. William Hodges and Betty Rymer are a different couple who had no children baptised in North Meols though, again, this means all the children are from the first couple of these names, which looks unlikely.

3. The Little London births were to the 2nd couple of this name, and my William and Betty had a son, Richard who, was not baptised at St Cuthberts.

4. 2 couples of the same names lived in Little London at the same time, and the Little London births are a mixture of both sets of couples, Richard being from my line. However, this then removes a Richard from the other couple's family, which would then not tie in with who seem to be the paternal grandparents.

I think at the moment I'm inclined towards theory 3, and that my Richard wasn't baptised at St Cuthberts, as he is born towards the end of Betty's childbearing age. Perhaps he was born in Birkdale, but the family returned there when he was young and he always regarded himself as a sandgrounder. I think it's possible that William didn't actually farm the land himself, that it was done by sons and/or Tom while William lived off the profits.

Another thing that's come to light from the lease and subsequent research is that my GGG grandfather, Tom, seems to have run the farm for his cousins after his uncle's death. In 1841, Tom and family are living at the Birkdale farm and peter, the eldest of the 3 cousins named on the lease, is listed as Independent (the other 2 are fishermen). 10 years later, Peter is a fisherman. I believe Peter was living off the income from the farm, which Tom was running (throughout this period Tom is described as labourer or husbandman, never farmer).

In the tithe map of 1845, the farm tenancy is listed in the apportionment book as William Hodge (Thomas Hodge) on all but the house and garden (which were in William's name alone). I always assumed that this meant Tom was working the land for, and living with, his uncle.... but of course William was dead by then. What I now believe it means is that Tom was resident on the farm, and that the lease was in the name of William Hodge. Tom was named because he was the sole farmer there at the time.

By 1851, Tom had left the Birkdale farm, as had his neighbours, the Aindows (who ran a lodging house on Lord St). Though we know from the lease that the Hodges still technically held the land until November 1869, I wonder if the Blundells offered some sort of deal to get them to vacate their land before the leases expired in order to release the land for the building of Birkdale Park estate. Perhaps they recieved rents as long as the leases were valid. We do know that the Blundells were eager to redevelop the land, and the take-up of building plots rapidly increased once the new Birkdale station was built in 1851.

Bez

Regarding what you said about Tom Hodge never being described as a farmer. The term "husbandman" indicates that he leased land.

Typically you should have seen the words "to farm" on the lease itself. This term means that the document is a lease, rather than a bargain and sale, although both would use the phrase "to have and to hold". The sale of a freehold would include the phrase "for ever", but in a lease it is "to farm" which is the important point if you are at all unsure.

HodgePodge

He was sometimes described as Husbandman, sometimes as Labourer, until he leased his own farm in Heathy lane, when of course he said he was a farmer.

I know the 1807 document was a lease, not belonging to Tom himself, but to his uncle William with his 3 sons named as the lives. The cost was a 400 guinea "consideration" and 8 Guineas per year.

I think Tom used the term husbandman sometimes because he was, in effect, farmer of the land on behalf of the leaseholders, who only seem to have worked as Fishermen, though when Peter was the eldest name on the lease, he was listed as independent, so I believe was living off the profits of the farm Tom was managing for him.

At marriage in 1816 and at the birth of his first child in 1817 he was husbandman, then he was listed as labourer until the census of 1851, when he had his own farm on Heathy Lane. I have no reason to think that at any point around 1816/17 he had his own lease, but he may have been running the farm for his uncle from this date or earlier.

Another fact to note is that Tom was orphaned at 8, when his mother died in 1803 (his father had been drowned within weeks of Tom's birth). Tom had only one brother, who apparently went to fight in the Napoleonic wars, according to family legend. Was he pressganged? or did their mother's death prompt the family to disperse wherever money could be found? I believe Tom may have gone to live with William at this stage, being perhaps a little young to find employment independently, but old enough to be useful within his uncle's family (especially as 3 of William's sons had died just 4 years earlier).

Tom was apparently pressganged whilst at market in Liverpool, but escaped after a night in custody... which is what makes me wonder if his brother, William, also met the same fate, but not fortunate enough to escape service.

HodgePodge

Oh, another titbit on the Hodge family. William & Betty's sons, who died in the fishing tragedy, were with their cousin, Peter Barlow. He was son of Anne Hodge, William's sister. Peter Barlow had married a couple of years earlier to Alice Meadow, and left her widowed at 22 with 2 young children. In 1803, Alice had an illegitimate child and married its father, William Bradshaw, a month later. They had a further 8 children. This Bradshaw couple lived in the Union Cottages (housing for the poor, still standing on Sandon Rd). They were next door to Alice's sister, Jennet Meadow, who had married William Roughley, also in the Union Cottages (their sister, Mary Meadow, married Miles Pye and their son was the first elected Guardian of the Poor in 1834).

Bez

At the times when Tom managed the farm for his uncle who held the lease - then that is what he was, a farm manager or even an "ag lab". He was, in effect, working for his uncle who would have been a husbandman because that is what the term implied; just as a yeoman could only call himself that if he actually owned some land. Most yeomen would lease the majority of their property and then sub let it, but the term means that they did hold some freehold property.

Just because the uncle chose to describe himself as a fisherman (presumably his main occupation) doesn't mean that he wasn't also a husbandman, albeit one who had a farm manager.

Strictly speaking, at the times when Tom called himself a husbandman he should have held the lease to at least one field in his own name.

Jane

Hodgepodge the information about Peter Barlow & Alice Meadow is interesting. They belong to my husband's line!

Dotty · Me, me , me...

Not wanting to be left out I mentioned several posts ago that I once had a milkman called Hodge. Well I can now relate that one of my great-aunt's (Ellen RIGBY m John [Jack] HOWARD) witnesses at her marriage was a Job Roughley. Does this make me a sad person or am I classed as family?

I do hate to be left out...

Dotty Rolling Eyes

HodgePodge

I don't know whether William described himself as Fisherman, as at the time of his children's births occupations weren't listed in the records, and he died just before the first census.

What I mean is that Tom is not known to have held any land himself until the Heathy lane farm he leased after 1841, so he asn't technically a husbandman at marriage, though he described himself as such. I'm just guessing at why he felt able to misrepresent himself in this way for a year or so, and I figure it's because he was running the farm single-handedly and saw himself as more than just a labourer (though he reverts to labourer after 1817).

Though we're not blood related to the Bradshaws, I find it very interesting that we are connected by marriage, as there is quite a bit written about the occupants of the Union Cottages (and nice to feel we have a connection to them, as they are one of the few very old properties still standing in Birkdale).... the connection also opens up a link to various other Birkdale folk.

Dotty, us old Southport names are all family, usually many times over. The Roughleys are relatively new arrivals in the district and seem to descend from William Ruffley & Ellen Aughton (whose son, William b 1781 married Jennet Meadow).

I have Rigbys in the tree somewhere, and I have recent Howards in my direct line (my GG grandmother), Ellen Howard 1830-1912, daughter of James Howard and Hannah Ball. Ellen married John Hulm of Bootle, who had moved to Southport with his brother, Moses, seeking bricklaying work (Ellen's sister, Mary Howard married Moses). They lived in Cemetery Rd for most of their lives, and we have the family bible of John & Ellen, which lists family history down to my grandmother's generation.

John Hulm & Ellen Howard's grand daughter, Betty Bury Hulm (my grandmother) married Edward Hodge, great grandson of Tom.

BrianG · Re: Me, me , me...

HodgePodge

William (d1639) had just one son who had children (Thomas)... well, except for the adulter Roger who had one illegitimate daughter... so all of us Hodges are descended through Thomas. We're descended through Thomas' son, William (1640-1671), then Thomas (1668-1721), William (1698-1756), Henry (baptised as William, known as Henry 1720-1797)... this is the father of William who held the lease being Henry's son, as well as John (Tom's father), who was drowned when Tom was a baby.

BrianG

Bez · Re: Me, me , me...

HodgePodge

I haven't really explored Ellen Aughton at the moment, as it's pretty distant and I've only just made the Roughley connection to the family.

Illegitimacy in the family can be a gift, as the maintenance and filiation orders can provide information which wouldn't be available otherwise.

The only illegitimacy I know of as yet in my direct line is John Hulm (grandfather of John & Moses who moved to Southport) born 1766 to Thomas Arnold of Formby and Mary Hulme of Altcar...with the maintenance order, along with the catholic census of 1767, we have a lot of info on a guy who could easily have lived his childhood without being recorded anywhere.

Bez

I didn't mean that I would have been shocked to find an instance of illegitimacy, but I was trying to determine if a child was the son of John Hooton and Ellen Aughton but who isn't actually in the Parish Register - well he is, but seems to have been recorded incorrectly. Another child listed for them seems to have also been entered incorrectly in the burial register - no baptism record, but one for a child with the same forename was registered to another couple. I wrote out a detailed argument for the person I was assisting and sent a copy Joyce Otterstrom as I had quoted her regarding her Park database. Joyce asked permission to publish this and the full explanation I have given regarding this Hooton line can be found on Rootsweb for the children of John Hooton and Ellen Aughton.

HodgePodge

I've been looking at Joyce Otterstram's info a bit today, and found she has Ellen Marshall (Tom Hodge's wife) as formerly married to Hugh Sawyer.... I have no reason to believe that this is the case. Firstly, Ellen married as Marshall, not Sawyer (though I have found occasinal widows who married under their maiden name, it's very rare). Also, Hugh Sawyer and Ellen Marshall married with parental consent, which neither would've needed based on Joyce's baptism records for them (both baptised 1791 and married 1814).

I still can't be 100% sure that my Ellen Marshall IS the one baptised in 1791, though this is the closest match to her.... but most census returns and her grave age suggest she was born c1795 (this, of course, would make her underage in 1814, so then could be a candidate as Hugh Sawyer's wife).

Hugh and Ellen Sawyer only have one child baptised in 1814, so this could indicate a short marriage.

I'll have to dig some more on this one... but I still suspect that Ellen Marshall may not have been baptised at St Cuthberts.... perhaps in Halsall, given her Birkdale birth.

Dotty · Check it out...

If I'm not mistaken other forum users have indicated in the past that the otterstrom information is not always 100% accurate and we usually advise checking all information yourself...as you have done.

I'm sure that other users will post very soon.

TTFN

Dotty

unsworth

yes dotty you are right. I have spoken in person with Joyce Otterstrom she told me my rimmer info was all wrong because I had 3 John Rimmers on my sheet born within 10 yrs. pitty she could not see that they were on 3 different lines thus different parents. but apparently that doesn't count. she informed I had better straighten it out. and I have census bmd records for most of the rimmer line and if not those copies of the church records for northmeols. I suspect she uses IGI and puts the 1st name that fits into the slot. I hate when people do that. sometimes I get it wrong and when pointed out I correct it.

Dotty · So true...

You are so right unsworth, we all try to be correct all the time but now and again the odd error creeps passed us.

I'm going to open my big mouth again and change feet but who is Joyce Otterwotsit? People talk about her all the time and her data base but I'd love to know who and where she is and now you post that you've spoken to her...a goddess!!

Dotty ( all a-tremble)

baxtersp

Hello Dotty

Joyce is a Mormon from Utah, and at a bit of a disadvantage being at such a distance from North Meols/Southport.

Steve Baxter

Dotty · Thanks...

Thank you Steve. It explains why she knows what's what. I'm such a baby where family history is concerned.

How are you? What's happening?

TTFN

Dotty

baxtersp

Hello Dotty

Thanks to a marriage certificate Keith & Ida Wild sent me (of my Baxter great grandparents) I've discovered I had the wrong father down. My 2 great grandma married twice, first to Robert Baxter (who died) and then to Thomas Baxter. It serves me right for not ordering the marriage certificate in the first place, I could have worked all this out at least a year ago it I had.

I wasn't having much luck with Thomas Baxter's ancestors anyway, but Robert Baxter was much easier to follow. Now I'm rooting through the Hesketh with Becconsall Census following some new Peet relatives.

Plenty of North Meols stragglers in Hesketh with Becconsall (mostly from Banks). I've been able to add some more Howard's, Abram's, Ball's and Blundell's. Lancashire BMDs have just put some marriages online for Hesketh Bank and Tarleton which are proving very useful.

Better get back to it anyway, before I forget where I was up to.

Steve Baxter

HodgePodge

I'd figured that the park database was largely based on IGI, as her records on IGI list her in Utah. I know the LDS have a good stock of church records on microfilm that can be ordered and viewed in any LDS library, but a lot of the park database seems to be based on assumption, such as Ellen Marshall marrying twice in 2 years under her maiden name I believe simply because she's the only Ellen Marshall who fits... what doesn't seem to be taken into account is the possibility that some children may not have been baptised, or baptised in nearby parishes (especially in the case of Birkdale residents, who could've been closer to Halsall or Scarisbrick churches than their own in Churchtown).

We all make mistakes, I hold my hands up to come corkers, but when chellenged on something, I wouldn't insist I was right without tracking down further evidence... the challenger might be right, and be pointing me in the direction of a more accurate tree!

Germaine

You are so right Hodge the other day i was going round in circles after finding a tree on Rootsweb . I figured out now how they went wrong but I am waiting for some documents to make double sure I am right.
One has a Shadrach born 1766 marrying a Catherine Rimmer but when I looked into it they have the wrong one it was his nephew that married Catherine am waiting for a price so I can send to Preston for his marriage settlement which will help me prove ( I hope ) that I am right. He married an Alice I don't think they had children so that will be why he left his money to relatives all interesting stuff this.
I can see how they went wrong as the elder Shadrach married in Croston and they must have just been going off St. Cuthberts reg. So easy to go wrong.
Keep up with your thread I am really enjoying it.
Saw some Meadows creep in there but haven't linked them to my lot.
Like you would only be too gratefull if I was wrong and someone points me in the right direction saves many an hour.
Germaine
x Very Happy

unsworth

some times I'm looking for a Rimmer and find 3-4 born the same year with the same name in the same district. the only way to tell is by ordering all the certs or requesting a parent check if known. I know I've had questions about Joyce O's stuff on several occasions. You just have to be carefull with popular names of an area or you can quite easily pick the wrong person I ordered the northmeols films and photo copied all but a handfull of pages. I refer to them a lot. its not illegal as long as you copy less than 90% of the book. so I did.

Bez

Germaine

I have just looked and isn't Joyce tree that I have found to be wrong. I will wait till I have the documents to prove I am right and let them know.
I can see where they have gone wrong as it looks as though they have just gone off St. Cuthberts parish reg.
Germaine
x Very Happy

HodgePodge

The big problem is, and I think most of us tend to fall into the trap, is that if we see something in print (particularly genuinely published, rather than just online), we believe it must be right.

I was terribly excited when I realised that an old sefton libraries genealogy guide I had gathering dust used Charles Hodge's tree as an example.... thing is.. I now know practically all of this is incorrect after finding the lease which attaches Charles' father to my line, not that of Richard and Jennet.

When you find something published, you assume the author has found additional documentary proof than what is readily available to the masses to establish their findings as close to absolute fact as is possible... wheras they've often only used the resources we have easy access to, which can be lacking at times.

I would love to publish my Hodge findings at some point, but I still don;t feel ready yet without more manorial records to prove some probabilities and provide extra padding to the story of their lives. I feel I'm getting close with Gred Tom and extended family.

I appreciate that it's sometimes necessary to publish with a disclaimer that it's believed to be accurate but should be checked, but sometimes I find very obvious errors in trees, such as a parent being only 10 years older than a child etc placed there because the compiler could only find one likely candidate and didn't look closely enough at the details.

On the issue of the ample supply of William & Betty records, I've been trying to figure out if there's some extra evidence to suggest that one William had 2 wives of the same name, or if some children were baptised outside North Meols. The possibility that William had 2 wives seems unlikely as there's no appropriate death for the first Betty, but one aged 58 in 1814 who looks a likely match, which is after the marriage between William and Betty Aindow.

One possibility is that the 2nd William and Betty (née Aindow) records relate to a family that later moved to Scarisbrick, as there's a Betty Hodge burial at North Meols in 1818 aged 44 who would match in age to one or two Betty Aindow births. Being from Scarisbrick but buried in North Meols does suggest that she was being returned to her place of origin (just as Birkdale folk who baptised children in Christ Church after its opening in 1821 still often married and were buried at St Cuthberts because it was the church they used in early life).

Here's a photo of the 1807 lease if anyone likes seeing the original documents:

HodgePodge

By the way, I've now figured out fully what the red pencil says:

"Hawes House and land out of lease by death of Rd Hodge Nov 16/69"

Does this suggest that William also leased more property in Hawes? as clearly this doesn't refer to the Birkdale farm, but it definitely says Hawes House. It's only just struck me that this might mean William leased a cottage in Hawes too (I've been thinking for some time that William and sons probably didn't live on the farm much, if at all, as fishing seems to have been the family's main occupation, and that Tom mostly farmed it alone on their behalf).

SeaCopRimmer

Extract from Annals of Southport: 1709 : At this time the district lying between the Birkdale Boundary and London Street was known as South Haws. About the year 1709 a fisherman named Peter Hodges built himself a cottage near where St Paul's vicarage now stands. It is recorded of Hodges that during the erection of the cotage, he caught enough fish to pay for it.

HodgePodge

The Peter Hodges info is interesting... though strangely, there is no record at St Cuthberts of a Peter's birth, marriage, death or baptism of any children to a man of this name within this time period.

It's more than possible for a family to not baptise some children, or for some records to be missing from the archive, but to have absolutely no reference to him of any kind in his own parish (and the nearest church to his home), seems a little odd.

Based on church records and names of firstborn children, we are as sure as we can be that William Hodges was son of Henry Hodges (christened William) and Anne Blundell, and that Henry, born 1720, was son of William and Ann who married sometime before 1718. This William appears to be born 1696, son of Thomas.

William Hodges and Anne Blundell lived in Haws, except the period of one child's birth, when they were in Little London.

The family had formerly owned land in Rowe Lane, and Henry Hodges returned there between the death of his wife in 1785 and his own death in 1797.

HodgePodge

Another thing that's just struck me which is interesting (to me, anyway!) is that this lease is made out to William HODGE, not Hodges, yet the "S" wasn't dropped from the name until 1815, when it seems that there was a change in Vicar at St Cuthberts (certainly the handwriting changed in this year, I haven't researched the vicars to confirm this)... it does make me wonder why this branch of the family was using the modern spelling 8 years before it was changed in the records

HodgePodge

Oh, I would also like to appeal to anyone who thinks they may be descended from James Hodge and Jane Marshall who married in 1912. I'm in the middle of searching through the BMD scans, but so far I believe they had children Constance Mabel in 1913, James Kenneth in 1914, Mary Irene in 1918. I'm sure there are others, but these are the ones I know to be born in Halsall with a mother named Marshall.

I believe these are the last of our line of Hodges to live on the Heathy Lane farm. James Hodge left in the 1920's and was still living in the 1930's when Bernulf Llewelyn Hodge carried out his research on the family.

I believe that if there are any pictures, items or documents surviving that relate to the family or either farm, they are likely to be in this branch of the family, as this is the line that remained in Tom's former home until the 20thC.

Jane

I wish you luck Hodge. I have actually worked backwards - okay forwards but the wrong way when it comes to family history. I have managed to find living people, written to them and in a couple of cases actually got new information. You do have to be ready for people not being interested though. Would you believe not everyone loves this hobby as we do Laughing

Once you get past 1911/12 it does get easier because maiden names are given. But it is a case of trawling through the GRO indexes. I then used electoral lists to find addresses. Southport reference library has a copy of the UK info disc which gets info from electoral registers and telephone books.

Good luck and let us know if/when you find someone Smile

HodgePodge

I don't usually research past 1901, because of being unable to verify BMD records with censuses, but in this case, it's the best option for trying to trace any documents, photos, information etc which might provide further information not readily available through libraries & internet databases.

I have found a Mary Irene Hodge death in 1991 in Sefton North, born 1918, so it looks like she never married. I can't find James Kenneth's death after 1983 (which is the quickest and easiest search option), and there are too many Constance Mabels (of any surname) to establish a certain match (and none dying in the Southport area).

My father remembers his own grandfather telling stories of visits to the farm in his youth, and though no-one recalls him mentioning it, I suspect my own grandfather, Edward Hodge, will have spent time there, as it was in the family until he was 18, being run by his father's cousin.

Jane

i have usually looked for marriages after I've found a person and their birth. Add 20 and search and hope. If I found a marriage the next thing was births of children. Easyish because of knowing mother's maiden name.

I carried on until I found someone likely to be alive. Then looked for them in electoral registers.

As I say time consuming but wonderful when you find someone. A lot depends on the surname. Very maddening when you find a woman marrying a Smith Surprised

HodgePodge

I've been pretty lucky having few very difficult names... probably the Rimmers are amongst the worst! In fact, when I come across a really unusual name I just can't resist filling in as many gaps as I can, even when they're only in-laws.... as it's just a gift too enticing to resist when there's only the real difficult puzzles left to solve in the direct tree... I did this with Edgoose when I found it in the family (though method in the madness, as it attached a good source of possible cousins who previously didn't know the link to other names in the family, as the link to our line was to a baptism unavailable through common sources, which I'd found by buying a Norfolk register on microfilm).

Another reason why I tend not to add distant relatives who may be living is the fact that most gedcom upload facilities don't automatically withold data relating to people who may be living, and I don't like to include these in my tree without explicit permission. I figure that if I take each branch as close to 1901 as possible, most people connected who are interested can find the link to that point themselves, and my tree can provide them with the further links.

HodgePodge

Dated after 1811 (the year Charles Blundell inherited the manor), this is a list of all Birkdale tenants who paid 10 shillings to Blundell for the right to graze cattle on Little Common, Birkdale.

Names are:

John Rimmer (crossed out) "gave up"
Thomas Carr (crossed out) "gave up"
Richard Aughton
Milles Blundell (Miles Blundell)
Edward Johnson
Thomas Marshall
William Carr
Joseph Marshall

I don't know why my Hodges aren't amongst them, but thought others might be interested in seeing the signatures of Birkdale folk.

Here are the signatures in close up:

And here's a list of fines paid in a 3 year period by Birkdale tenants to Henry Blundell, presumably dated 1807-1811 (Hodge got his farm in 1807, and Henry Blundell died 1811)

I also have the original lists of the tenant boundaries and the 1809 survey book, which details the extent and size of each property, listing fields, crofts buildings etc. These are photographed page-by-page so are too big to upload, but if anyone wants details of a specific tenant, I'll gladly transcribe or upload the individual record.

Dotty · Old docs

Thanks for sharing those old documents. I'm sure they will be of huge interest to many people.

Dotty thumleft

HodgePodge

It's a pleasure to do.. these documents have probably rarely, if ever, been accessed before for North Meols/Birkdale research, even for the published works, as they are held at Liverpool, not Preston like the rest of the material for our area.

Additionally, it's only fairly recently that the catalogues have been available (online) and searchable as one large database... so I guess in the past people have focused on Preston as the main, and only, source for old documents for our area.

I can only assume that the Blundell papers ended up in Liverpool because the family were based in Ince and much of their property was from Birkdale down to Ince.

It's a pity Liverpool Record Office can't hold all of the North Meols/Birkdale documents, as we are in the same county, unlike Preston... it's also easier and cheaper for Southport folk to travel to Liverpool by public transport.

keithwwild · hodge

My Wifes tree also contains a Hodge. This ones a Stanley born in Marshside aged 23 when he married in Banks methodist Church 1928 an Isabell Abram aged 25 who was born in Banks. Isabel is the first cousin to my wifes Mother.

Keith & Ida

HodgePodge

I assume from this that you have the marriage certificate... if so, the father's name & occupation should help identify Stanley in the tree. I have few Hodges except close relatives and other researchers' families after 1901... and Stanley would've been born c1903... so if you have Stanley's father, I might be able to link him.

keithwwild · Hodge

We only have an extract from the church records prepared by a Pauline Abram. The extract reads "1928 Isabella Abram age 25 spinster of Bonds Lane daughter John Abram (labourer) m Stanley Hodge age 23 of Marshside"

Sorry we have no other info.

Keith

HodgePodge

Well, unfortunately his age makes him just a couple of years too late to be on the census, and about 10 years too young to find out his mother's maiden name from the BMD index alone.

It's a pity, as the church records after 1837 do include all that was required for the certificate, so the church record should have the fathers and addresses etc.

If you ever decide to track them down with the certificate, let me know and I'll try to link him to the "big picture"... though I appreciate that your interest might not extend to wanting his tree back to 1580, as he was related by marriage.

Hodgie

Bez

HodgePodge

True, I live in Liverpool now, so naturally this is easier for me to access, but I was thinking more of access from Southport which is, after all, the primary factor in the issue.... given that this is the very place the records relate to.

Southport has no direct train service to Preston and fares are expensive due to having to travel into a different transport area, However, Southport has a very regular, fast and relatively cheap service to Liverpool. Southport is in the Merseytravel network, which makes fares much cheaper (and free for senior citizens).

Without a car, Southport and Birkdale residents are left with the option of an expensive and lengthy train journey, including connections... or an even longer bus ride.... by the time they get there, they'd have used up half the day!

Bez

There is however, a bus service to Preston and an elderly neighbour down the road used to go on a regular basis to the record office by bus. It is, of course, easier by car and I can go door to door.

Liverpool is difficult to access for me for a number of reasons. If I were to go by train, then I face a long walk apparently - my late partner's brother, who lives in Crosby, thinks it's too far for me to walk. A taxi is an expensive option on top of the train fare. There is disabled parking outside the Record Office but I understand that one needs to get there very early to be sure of a free space. I know there are multistorey car parks but I find Liverpool a very confusing place to drive around so prefer to avoid it if at all possible.

The other possibility is the bus, but that is something I need to check out.

HodgePodge

Central Station is a bit of a walk, but if it helps, Lime St is only across the road (with subway access), and you can get a train one stop from Central to Lime St at no extra cost if you're paying.

I have a blue badge, that my partner uses when dropping me off & picking me up, and we've always found spaces midweek.

I just feel that holding records at Preston is effectively excluding non-drivers from visiting, bearing in mind that it's at the north of the old Lancashire area, and still holds many records that relate to places now in a different county. Travel is long, infrequent and expensive to Preston from Southport compared to Liverpool.

At the very least, it would be nice to have access to microfilm copies of any holdings that specifically relate to areas now in Merseyside.

SeaCopRimmer

This debate is getting a little negative about Preston - the walk from Lime Street Station is short - but the change to travel to Lime Street is long and not one to be taken lightly by those who have difficulties!
It is very easy to get to Bow Lane by bus - but in the North Meols (S) FHS we do try and help our members and I, for one, am always willing to take members to Preston if they wish to visit.
Whilst I agree that Liverpool records should be kept by Lancashire Record Office they are not and we have to live with it - and Preston, incidentally, is not at the north end of the County (old or new) - and never has been. My two-pennorth Exclamation

Dotty · Duel...

Pistols at dawn girls....

HodgePodge

LOL...I was just voicing a little bugbear of mine... though I thought my last message was trying to be fairly positive about access to Liverpool/disabled parking etc. I have always accepted that Preston is the main record office for our region and would have no problem with records being held there if only records relevant to Merseyside were duplicated at Liverpool (I'd be happy for them to be in microfilm format)

Hopefully one day this will be less of an issue if such records will be made available electronically in the future.

Anyway, no offence was intended, and I hope none taken... it would be a very silly thing to fall out over, seeing as we mere mortals have no control over the decision of where to keep them anyway!

SeaCopRimmer

Agreed and no offence taken (or intended)

Bez

You can actually glean a lot from the A2A site once catalogues are online - depending on how well documents have been written up in the Record Office "calendars". If you find something which interests you it is always worth clicking on the full catalogue entry as there is often additional information.

Personally I'd like to see Liverpool records duplicated at Preston - maybe we should have a petition about it?

HodgePodge

Not a bad idea about the petition. I agree that Liverpool Record Office material would be useful at Preston... in fact, I'm surprised it's not, with Preston being the primary record office for the original Lancashire. Don't they even have the microfilms of the church records?

It would be quite a mammoth task to microfilm all these manorial records, but they have microfilmed larger bodies of material (church records)... as this stuff is public data which is free to access in the record offices themsleves, wouldn't it be fabulous if future/repeated microfilming was done digitally and made available free or cheaply to view online?

I know some online material is already available for the central archives, and it's not priced too badly at £3.50 (even having something scanned from scratch is only about £7 and takes a few hours to come through), but I'd love to see all records, particularly local ones, available this way at some point.

I have found A2A useful just from the index at times, particularly for the Maintenance and Filiation orders... the farm of William's needed checking, though, as the index only gives his name and the date, not the lives on the lease etc

Dotty · Petition

Glad you've kissed and made up...if you ever get the petition sorted Bez I'll sign it!

Dotty

HodgePodge

I would love to get to Lancs to view the 1809 plan of Birkdale, which they seem to have there, as the Liverpool one was just a copy (and a more recent one, it seems)... though the survey of the same year supplies numbers that look like they are map references, the plan itself has no corresponding numbers on it. It also has modern roads drawn in pencil over the top and some road names marked in pen which I'm sure didn't exist in 1809, such as Everton Road, which I think may cover part of what would've been Mill Lane at the time.

However, if the Lancs plan is an exact copy of the Liverpool one, it would be wasted journey (not to mention the £13 rail fare)

Bez

That sounds a bit like the plan published in a book produced by the Birkdale and Ainsdale Historical Research Society. I believe Andrew Farthing had a lot to do with that (because he told me that he'd superimposed a modern map over an old one of Birkdale) but it wasn't easy to do because of the different scales used.

Have you thought about phoning the LRO and asking them if they have the original?

HodgePodge

The B&A made a large print of the 1845 tithe with the modern map superimposed, which I bought recently. According to this, John Pye was running what we believe is the Hodge farm which was being run by Tom Hodge in 1841 (the position of Aindows and the mill either side in the census supports the believed position, Birkdale Mews being the original farm building). Tom had left for his own farm on Heathy Lane by 1851, and the farm was on the 3 lives until 1869, so I can only assume that John Pye was running the farm on their behalf, as Tom had done before him.

There are some hand-drawn sections of the 1809 manorial plan in the Old Birkdale and Ainsdale book which do include names of the fields etc, but the section I'm interested in isn't duplicated.... however, this does suggest that the Lancashire RO plan does include names or numbers relating to the survey (though Liverpool Record Office doesn't appear in the references, and the survey book is held there).

This is where having the records in 2 different places, and not having microfilms of each others' holdings becomes an issue... the detailed plan, with names of tenants being in one place, and it seems the original plan with the required references is in another.

HodgePodge

An update on my Hodge family, we've long had a puzzle on what happened John Hodge, my GGG grandfather's elder brother, who was said to have fought at Waterloo.

I ran a search on the National Archives and found an index listing for discharge papers for John Hodge of MAILO, Lancashire 1810-1824, aged 34.

it was a little vague about what the dates referred to, but if he had been discharged in 1824, then the age was a great match for our John born 1790. Also, not having any knowledge of a place called Mailo in Lancs, I hoped this was a misspelling of Meols.

I ordered a copy of the papers and came back with the following:

8th (or King's) regt of Foot. Colonel General Edmund Stevens.

These are to certify that Private John Hodge born in the parish of Mailo in
or near the town of Ormskirk in the county of Lancaster was enlisted in the
aforesaid Regiment at Manchester in the county of Lancaster on the 17th day
of December 1810 at the age of tweny for unlimited service.

That he served in the army for the space of Fourteen Years and Ninety Six
Days, after the age of Eighteen, according to the subjoined

Statement of Service

8th Foot
From: 17th Dec 1810 to: 22nd March 1825. A private for 14 years and 96 days

That by Authority of The Dept Adjutant General's Letter dates Horse Guards
3rd Dec 1824 he is hereby discharged in consequence of General ill health
induced in the service. Wounded in the right leg at Fort George the 27th May
1812 in action with the enemy (signature I can't read)

That his general conduct as a soldier has been: Bad - he appears to have
been wounded in the right leg at Fort George the 27th May 1813 in action
with the enemy.

I Private John Hodge do hereby acknowledge that I have received all my
clothing, pay, arrears of pay and all just demands whatsoever, from any time
of my entry into the service to the time of my discharge.
Certified by John Hannay Capt (commanding the troop or company)
Signature of the Soldier: John X Hodge (his mark)

To prevent improper use being made of this discharge, by its falling into
other hands, the following is a description of the said Private John Hodge.
He is about 34 years of age, is five feet 4 1/2 inches in height, brown
hair, brown eyes, dark complexion, and by trade or occupation a labourer.

??? (obscured by seal) hand, and seal of the regiment, at Plymouth this 24th
day of Dec 1824

Signature of commanding officer Edw? Melville Browne Major Comm

Horse Guards 22nd Mar 1825, confirmed for ?????? (can't read)

The front of the discharge paper reads:

8 foot
John Hodge
age 34
served 14 3/12

General Ill Health & wounded in right leg

Mailo
Ormskirk
Lanc
6d (not sure what this relates to, appears to be relating to money!)
5 4 1/2
Bro Bro Dark Lab

What this tells us is that John did not fight at Waterloo, in fact, did not serve in Europe at all during the Napoleonic Wars, instead he served mainly in Canada, guarding (and occasionally losing) the border between Canada and America. It is possible that he served in Corfu after this time, when there was something of a scuffle with the Greeks.

I've done some research on Fort George, and the action focused on the dates 25th-27th May 1813, with the Americans pushing towards the Fort over a couple of days. There was a battle at the Fort itself on the 27th May, which the Americans won, forcing the British and Canadian troops to retreat.

It's likely that Fort George was replaced with Waterloo in the retelling within the family, as the latter sounds more impressive, and by the mid-late 19thC few people probably remembered the Canadian battle.

We have family anecdotal information about a number of places that John lived in North Meols & Birkdale, which one would assume means he returned home after leaving the army (being only 20 when he joined, it's unlikely he had so many homes before he left). The Birkdale residence was near the Mill, close to Tom's home at the present Alma Rd/Liverpool Rd junction.

That being so, I believe I have tracked him down after his service.

In November 1825 John Hodge married Ann Marshall, witnessed by Martha Marshall, both sisters of my GGG grandmother, Ellen Marshall (John's sister-in-law).

Almost all Hodge records of Birkdale at the time can be attributed to my GGG grandparents Tom & Ellen. Aside from these, there are just 3 records in Birkdale:

Mary Hodge b 1826 to John Hodge, Labourer and Ann
Ellen Hodge burial 1827 aged 5 weeks
John Hodge burial 1829 infant

So Mary is John's daughter. Ellen is likely to be his. John has to be, as Tom & Ellen already had a living son of this name by then.

So John & Ann pretty certainly had children Mary and John, and possibly a 2nd daughter named Ellen.

John and Mary were the names of John & Tom Hodge's parents.

John's wife, Ann, died in 1834 aged 35. John appears to have died in 1839

John's only surviving child, Mary, married Richard Sumner but did not have any living childn in any census return. She died in 1886 aged 63.

André

Now that I've turned to finding the grandchildren of my ancestors and their families, I'm also finding the surname HODGE (more than once).

I found an Ellen HODGE marrying my relative Thomas BLUNDELL on 9th May 1819 in North Meols. She was possibly christened 11th jan 1795, the daugther of William HODGES and Betty (can't find a marriage).

Their daughter Elizabeth BLUNDELL chr. 02 Dec 1821 in Christ Church marries to a Henry HODGE born around 1819 in Scarisbrick (died 1894).
Does anyone know who Henry HODGE's parents were?

HodgePodge

Yes, Ellen is part of my family. She was the daughter of my GGGGG uncle William Hodge and his wife, Betty (no surname known). My GGG grandfather worked for William on his farm at the corner of the present Liverpool Rd/Alma Rd. The farm building survives as Birkdale Mews, behind the shops on Liverpool Rd.

William and Betty didn't live in Birkdale much, though occasional residence there is noted in events around 1800. William's first known lease is of the North fishing stall at Birkdale in 1799, just a few weeks before his 3 sons were drowned at sea (a younger sister witness the tragedy). The lease was rewritten at no charge to address the sudden loss of the lives listed on it.

William then leased the farm in 1807, amongst the sons named on it is Richard Hodge, father of Charles, the coxwain who died in the Eliza Fernley disaster (refuting all previous claims, including Bulpit's, that Charles was from a different branch)... it is confirmed that this is the same Richard, as his death is marked on the lease in 1869, the same date as is given in the probate books for Charles' father.

The assumption that Richard was son of a different William & Betty comes from the fact that our W&B baptised a number of children, all in South Haws except the last in Birkdale. A William then married Betty Andow and subsequent W&B children (in South Haws) are attributed to this couple, the first being a Richard who matches in age to Charles' father.

I haven't yet determined whether there were 2 William and Bettys and whether Richard was ours, or belonged to another couple but did not survive/stay in the area. It's possible that all the W&B children were ours and that either the other couple moved (possible Scarisbrick)... or were even our couple who married some time into their relationship. However, this requires Betty to have been reproducing for a long time. It's also possible that our William married 2 women of the same forename.

However, Richard is the youngest child to be mentioned on any of the 3 known leases.

In 1811, William took out a lease from the Fleetwood Hesketh estate (Southport). This included the names of his daughters Nanny, Betty & Ellen (aged 17 at the time).

There is another lease dated 1823 which mentions your Thomas Blundell, taken out by Robert Hodge, William's son, which names himself and his nephews James Jump, son of Gilbert and R Blundell aged 1, son of Thomas.

William and his sons mostly lived in South Haws, in particular in King St, and generally worked as fishermen. Thomas worked on the farm for William, and for his sons after William's death in 1837. Tom stayed there until the 1840s, when he moved to his own farm on Heathy Lane, Halsall. The Hodge farm was then managed by John Pye, though technically remained in Hodge hands until Richard's death in 1869. I suspect that the Blundell family may have bought out the tenants' rights to farm the land and placed their own farmers there so they could vacate the land as soon as tenants came available to develop the land into residential properties, as Tom left around the time that the Birkdale Park plan was born. His neighbour, Isabella Andow, also left her farm to open a boarding house in Southport in the same period.

Sorry, I'm prattling on a bit here.... I absolutely LOVE this family... I have so much on them, and hope to expand on them further.

I have photos of the grave of Ellen Hodge & Thomas Blundell:

Sacred to the memory of
Thomas Blundell of Southport
Butcher
Who departed on the ninth of
April 1844 aged 53 years

Here lieth the body of Ellen
wife of the above Thomas Blundell
who departed on the
?? (5th?) day of June 1860
Aged 66 years

I'll leave it there for now... or I could ramble about them all day.

HodgePodge

Dotty · Wow...

Thanks for sharing your info with us hodgepodge. I haven't got that far yet with my family history, you put me to shame!

Dotty Confused

HodgePodge

I can't take credit for it all.... one of the leases (of the fishing stall) is outlined in Aughton's North Meols book, the 1811 lease in Southport and the leases of William's sons were found by Bernulf Llewelyn Hodge in the 1930s... I found the 1807 one for the farm.

Supplimental to André's post (I got so excited about Ellen I didn't notice the Henry Hodge question).....

Henry Hodge of 1819 was baptised in St Cuthberts, son of Henry Hodges and Alice Wright. The elder Henry was son of Peter Hodges and Alice Ball. Peter Hodges was son of Henry Hodges (baptised William) and Anne Blundell.... and Peter's brother was William who married Betty... so Elizabeth Blundell and her husband, Henry Hodge, were 2nd cousins... sharing great grandparents Henry (William) and Anne.

Yvonne

Not having any connection to Hodge in my tree until recently, I have made contact with a relative whose grandmother was my grandmother's sister and she married a Thomas Henry Hodge c1894 according to 1901 census was born Halsall, and I have been told that his mother was an Elizabeth Ball .

In it he is living with grandfather Thomas Hodge c1831 and Are these Hodge from Halsall/Scarisbrick the same line as mentioned by you Hodgepodge?

Whoops just reread what I wrote. 1901 - Thomas Hodge is c1831 would be Thomas Henry's grandfather, therefore have amended.

admin

Hodgepodge hasn't been on the forum for ages - I have emailed and told her about the replies to her posts so I hope she comes on and gets back to you.

HodgePodge

All the Hodges from the Southport area are descended from William & Dorothy who were baptising children in the early 1600s, I'll take a look tomorrow at the specific individuals, they should be in my tree somewhere

HodgePodge

Thomas Hodge c1830/31, grandfather of Thomas Henry, was son of Tom & Ellen. Thomas was born on the farm in Birkdale and in 1901 was running the farm on Heathy Lane, Halsall (which his father had leased in the 1840s).

I had never been able to place Thomas Henry in the tree, as he lived with his grandfather in the only census, I hadn't ruled out the possibilityof him being an illegitimate son of one of Thomas' surviving daughters (Elizabeth or Ann)... perhaps it was Elizabeth and she later married a Ball?

I would be interested in any information that identifies him in the family, so that I can give him his rightful place on my tree.

Bez

Seeing the Hodge photograph on the other thread reminded me that a friend in Canada sent me her late husband's tree a few years ago and that included a Hodge line.

Thomas Wright, weaver, aged 20 of Shayhey (Chase Heys), son of James Wright, shoemaker married 28th February 1852 Ann Hodge, weaver, aged 20 of Marshside, daughter of Hugh Hodge, weaver.

The witnesses were Peter Wright and Betty Hodge.

I think she would be thrilled to have some more information if anyone can connect with this line.

baxtersp

Here's what I've got on Thomas & Ann's descendants. For their ancestors see Joyce Otterstrom's Park database, she doesn't have them married but she does have them on her tree.

Descendants of Thomas Wright

First Generation

1. Thomas Wright [15602], son of James Wright [13657] and Jenny Leadbetter [4990], was born on 25 Apr 1832 in Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England and was christened on 24 Jun 1832 in Independent Chapel, Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.

General Notes: birth and chr 1832 #334 Thomas, son of James Wright Shoemaker, Church Town and Jane his wife (maiden name Leadbater) born April 25th baptized June 24th 1832 by me Wm Alexander

From North Meols Census 7th April 1861, District 4, Page 2, Schedule 9
Mill Brow, Churchtown

Thomas Wright Head Mar 29 Agent for Silk & Cotton Manufacturer born North Meols
Ann Wright Wife Mar 30 Silk & Cotton Weaver
James Wright Son 9 Scholar
Ann Wright Dau 6 Scholar
Mary Wright Dau 4 Scholar
Jenny Wright Dau 1

From North Meols Census 2nd April 1871, District 5, Page 23, Schedule 119
Churchtown

Thomas Wright Head Mar 38 Grocers Assistant at Churchtown
Co-oprative Store born North Meols
Ann Wright Wife Mar 39
James Wright Son Unm 18 Journeyman Joiner
Ann Wright Dau Unm 15 Scholar
Jenny Wright Dau 11 Scholar
Ellen Wright Dau 9 Scholar
John Wright Son 6 Scholar
Hugh Wright Son 2
Betty Wright Dau 1 month
Frank B Riley Lodger 3 Scholar Manchester

From North Meols Census 3rd April 1881, District 4, Page 10, Schedule 51
6 Sunny Road, Churchtown

Thomas Wright Head Mar 49 Shopman at Co-operative Stores born North Meols
Ann Wright Wife Mar 49
James Wright Son Unm 28 Joiner
Ann Wright Dau Unm 25 Dressmaker
Mary Wright Dau Unm 24 Shop Assistant
Jenny Wright Dau Unm 21 Dressmaker
Ellen Wright Dau Unm 19 Shop Assistant
John Wright Son 16 Stonemason's Apprentice
Hugh Wright Son 12 Scholar
Betty Wright Dau 10 Scholar

From North Meols Census 5th April 1891, District 4, Page 13, Schedule 93
6 Sunny Road, Churchtown

Thomas Wright Head M 58 Grocer born North Meols
Ann Wright Wife M 59
Ellen Wright Dau S 29 Grocer's Assistant
John Wright Son S 26 Stonemason
Hugh Wright Son S 22 Pier Official
Betty Wright Dau S 20 Dressmaker
Ann Hodge M-in-Law W 80 Living on own means1

Noted events in his life were:

• He worked as a Silk Weaver on 30 Mar 1851 in Chase Heys, Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.
• He worked as an Agent for Silk & Cotton Manufacturer on 7 Apr 1861 in Mill Brow, Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.
• He worked as a Grocers Assistant at the Churchtown Co-operative Store on 2 Apr 1871 in Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.
• He worked as a Shopman at Co-operative Stores on 3 Apr 1881 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.
• He worked as a Grocer on 5 Apr 1891 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.

Thomas married Ann Hodge [12166] [MRIN: 2747] March Quarter 1852 in Ormskirk Registration District, Lancashire, daughter of Hugh Hodge [13666] and Ann Rimmer [13667]. Ann was born in Marshside, North Meols, Lancashire, England and was christened on 11 Dec 1831 in St Cuthbert, Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.

Marriage Notes: Jan-Feb-Mar 1852 Ormskirk Registration District, Volume 8b, Page 645

General Notes: From North Meols Parish Registers 1813 - 1837, Baptisms
11 December 1831 Ann d. of Hugh & Ann Hodge, Marshside, weaver

Noted events in her life were:

• She worked as a Silk Weaver on 30 Mar 1851 in Marshside, North Meols, Lancashire, England.
• She worked as a Silk & Cotton Weaver on 7 Apr 1861 in Mill Brow, Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.

Children from this marriage were:

2 M i. James Wright [12215] was born about 1852 in North Meols, Lancashire, England.

Noted events in his life were:

• He worked as a Journeyman Joiner on 2 Apr 1871 in Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.
• He worked as a Joiner on 3 Apr 1881 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.

3 F ii. Ann Wright [12218] was born about 1855 in North Meols, Lancashire, England.

Noted events in her life were:

• She worked as a Dressmaker on 3 Apr 1881 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.

4 F iii. Mary Wright [12219] was born about 1857 in North Meols, Lancashire, England.

Noted events in her life were:

• She worked as a Shop Assistant on 3 Apr 1881 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.

+ 5 F iv. Jenny Wright [22396] was born in 1859 in North Meols, Lancashire, England, died on 29 Sep 1922 aged 63, and was buried in St Cuthbert, Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.

6 F v. Ellen Wright [12221] was born about 1862 in North Meols, Lancashire, England.

Noted events in her life were:

• She worked as a Shop Assistant on 3 Apr 1881 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.
• She worked as a Grocer's Assistant on 5 Apr 1891 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.

7 M vi. John Wright [12222] was born about 1865 in North Meols, Lancashire, England.

Noted events in his life were:

• He worked as a Stonemason's Apprentice on 3 Apr 1881 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.
• He worked as a Stonemason on 5 Apr 1891 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.

+ 8 M vii. Hugh Wright [13664] was born about 1869 in North Meols, Lancashire, England, died on 8 May 1955 aged about 86, and was buried in St Cuthbert, Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.

9 F viii. Betty Wright [13665] was born in 1871 in North Meols, Lancashire, England.

General Notes: 1 month old in 1871 Census (2nd April)

Noted events in her life were:

• She worked as a Dressmaker on 5 Apr 1891 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.

Second Generation (Children)

5. Jenny Wright [22396] (Thomas 1) was born in 1859 in North Meols, Lancashire, England, died on 29 Sep 1922 aged 63, and was buried in St Cuthbert, Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.

General Notes: Jenny died September 29th 1922 aged 63 years and is buried with her husband Henry Watkinson (and children) in St Cuthbert's churchyard, Churchtown. Gravestone transcription entered in Henry's record.

Noted events in her life were:

• She worked as a Dressmaker on 3 Apr 1881 in 6 Sunny Road, Churchtown, Southport, North Meols, Lancashire.

Jenny married Henry Watkinson [22385] [MRIN: 4888] June Quarter 1883 in Ormskirk Registration District, Lancashire, son of Richard Watkinson [22268] and Margaret Wright [22380]. Henry was born about 1859 in North Meols, Lancashire, England, died on 23 May 1932 aged about 73, and was buried in St Cuthbert, Churchtown, North Meols, Lancashire, England.

General Notes: From North Meols Census 5th April 1891, District 4, Page 13, Schedule no. 92
4 Sunny Road, Churchtown

Henry Watkinson Head M 31 Pointsman born North Meols
Jenny Watkinson Wife M 31
Richard Watkinson Son 7 Scholar
Thomas Watkinson Son 4 Scholar
Margaret Watkinson Dau 1

From Southport Census 31st March 1901, District 4, Page 7, Schedule no. 58
36 Sunny Road, Churchtown

Henry Watkinson Head M 41 Joiner & Wheelwright Worker born Southport
Jenny Watkinson Wife M 41
Richard Watkinson Son S 17 Provision Dealer Worker
Thomas Watkinson Son 14 Grocer Worker
Maggie Watkinson Dau 11
Lillian Watkinson Dau 9
Harold Watkinson Son 3

From gravestone in St Cuthbert's churchyard, Churchtown

In Loving Memory of
Herbert Henry,
son of
Henry & Jenny Watkinson
who died Dec 21st 1894,
aged 3 months.
"For of such is the kingdom of Heaven."
Also of
Private Richard Watkinson
R.A.M.C.

Hodge

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