| Archive for nmfhssouthport.myfreeforum.org North Meols (Southport) Family History Society |
| Jane |
Leadbetter/OxleyI am posting this on behalf of a society member. She is trying to find the marriage for john Oxley & Elizabeth Leadbetter. She thinks it was around 1858 but can't find it on any BMD index. Can anyone help?The couple are living Hawes-side on the 1861 census. I can't find John in 1851 and Elizabeth seems to be in Thornton with her family although born Meals (I think this is a trasncribers way of putting Meols) One marriage for Elizabeth on FreeBMD - March quarter 1859 Ormskirk But the only John on the same age is John Rigby Hope someone can advise or help |
| SeaCopRimmer |
Is there the slightest possibility that the name has been transcribed wrongly on the Marriage Certificate? I've found :
John Oxley married Margaret Leadbetter, St Peter's Church, Liverpool, March Quarter 1859. |
| Jane |
That's a strong possibility. Thanks for that. I will pass it on |
| mother |
These Leadbetter are very elusive, I've been searching for a John Leadbetter, father of Elizabeth, for years |
| Jane |
Beryl - the member who asked - emailed this to me today
I have been watching the forum with bated breath and have seen that there has been a suggestion that the marriage between John Oxley and Margaret Leadbetter in Liverpool in January 1859 might be the right one with an error in the name of the bride. I had hoped that too. I sent for a copy of the certificate some time ago and am fairly convinced that it isn't the right one after all. On it both John and Margaret were living in Liverpool and John's occupation was "Flatman". I know that he was a builder and stonemason for the large part of his life - the family moved all over the country after 1861 presumably following his trade - children born in Southport; Bilton, Gloucs.; Mansfield; Halifax;Radcliffe and Bury! On the certificate too, Margaret's father's occupation is given as "farmer". The family talk, which I heard as a youngster, was always that Grandma Oxley (Elizabeth) came from a shrimping family. On the 1861 census John's place of birth was given as North Meols but on subsequent census it was always shown as Warrington and that is the place that family talk always mentioned. So those are the reasons which lead me to be suspicious about that marriage being the right one. BUT I think that I will now send for a copy of the marriage cert for Elizabeth and John Rigby - you never know your luck! |
| Germaine |
Hope you don't mind me popping in .  I noticed you said Elizabeth was in Thornton in 1851. If this is the Elizabeth born c 1837 daughter of Peter Leadbetter residing in FLeetwood . Then this won't be your Elizabeth as this Elizabeth is my G G Grandmother she married a James Wilson.
What age is Elizabeth . Can't look today got a bored little boy to occupy but will have a look over the weekend see if I can find anything.
Germaine x |
| Germaine |
Not sure if I have been looking at the right Oxley but there is an Elizabeth Oxley married to a John that states she is born in Burscough on one census .Is that right if so this looks like her family in 1851.
Germaine x
1851 England Census about Elizabeth Leadbetter Name: Elizabeth Leadbetter Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Thomas Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gender: Female Where born: Burscough, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Burscough County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Ormskirk Sub-registration district: Tarleton Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Leadbetter 40 Elizabeth Leadbetter 14 Emily Leadbetter 4 Henry Leadbetter 21 Richard Leadbetter 8 Thomas Leadbetter 60 Alice Waight 23 |
| Germaine |
Found some of the right Leadbetter trees on Roots web. This one looks a good one. kathrynd
You want the ones of Thomas Leadbetter with Mary Barton as his mother. No luck yet with a marriage for Elizabeth . No one seems to have followed her. Also trees on for John Oxley looks like they coudln't find a marriage either as they have Elizabeth as unknown. Germaine x
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| Beryl |
Elizabeth LeadbetterI'm so grateful for all your help. I feel I am slowly getting nearer to identifying "my" Elizabeth!The little I know of her comes from census returns. In 1861 she was in Hawes Side, aged 23, born North Meols. She was married to John Oxley then and had a daughter Ann. I have verified Elizabeth's maiden name from the birth cert. In 1871 she was in Mansfield, aged 32 born Burscough and in 1881 she was in Tottington Lower End, Bury aged 43 again born Burscough. She died in 1889 aged 52. The 1841 census shows an Elizabeth aged 5 (with parents Peter and Mary) living in Banks and the IGI shows this Eliz's christening on 21/8/1836 so she is probably too old to be "mine". But no Elizabeth shown in 1841 with a father Thomas. I'm hoping that the fathers name on the marriage cert for Elizabeth Leadbetter and John Ribgy will eliminate another one of the possibilities. I'm pursing all the other leads you have given me. Watch this space! |
| Germaine |
Glad you found that a bit helpful Beryl. I too have searched the 1841 and I can't find them either. I wonder if the page they are on is missing.
Oh also I wonder if John and lEizabeth didn't register their marriage and that is why we can't find it. It looks like it will be a case of trying to find it in a parish record. Stroke of luck I noticed it was my GG Grandmother that you had found.
Good Luck will keep looking Germaine x
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| Beryl |
LeadbettersThanks again Germaine. Yes, I must agree that it looks as though the relevant page of the census is missing, Also I think too that a search of parish records might bear fruit. I shall probably have to rely on local knowledge (yet again!) for a clue as to possible local churchs.Beryl |
| Germaine |
Yes it looks that way Beryl.
I noticed that most of their children were born in Burscough . I don't know if I have been looking in the wrong place but can't seem to find it. So I wonder if it is missing. I don't know the churches round there perhaps some one else does .  Or did they use St. Cuthberts too at tht time does
Germaine x |
| Bez |
I think St Cuthbert's has a few entries where one of the party is from Burscough, but I would have thought that Croston was more likely. I don't know about a parish church in Burscough, but it did have a Priory in the medieval period if I remember correctly. |
| Yvonne |
I have an ancestor born Burscough and she was baptised and married at St Peter and Paul, Ormskirk. Looked quickly on the Lancs Online but did not see any Oxley's. |
| Beryl |
Thanks to all the wonderful help I have had from members of NMFHS I feel I am slowly establishing links in my search for the parentage of Elizabeth Leadbetter. It seems possible/probable that Elizabeth's father was the Thomas mentioned on the 1851 cansus in Burscough. In 1861 he was living in Mount St., Southport and the first child of my Elizabeth was born in Mount St in 1859. Thomas was christened and married at St Cuthberts but two of his children were baptized at Churchtown Independent Church. Should I search both of these church records for possible marriages of Elizabeth Leadbetter and John Oxley?? Can anyone with local knowledge give me guidance please?? |
| SeaCopRimmer |
Well, Mount Street is very close to Southport town centre so the local churches would be:
Holy Trinity (CofE) Mornington Road (Wesleyan Methodist) Mornington Road (another non-conformist church) St George's Lord Street Christ Church, Lord Street (CofE) It could be a long haul this one? Anything we can do to help? |
| Germaine |
Glad you have found what seems to be a link with Thomas and Elizabeth. If anyone would be kind enough to look at the parish reg. they might find that elusive marriage. If Mount St is more into Southport itself that would be a good place to look. a thought maybe check out the Methodist first I think the Leadbetters were a Methodist family. Thouh of course they did use C of E.
Germaine x
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| Bez |
There is no John Oxley listed for St Cuthbert's that I can see. |
| Germaine |
I have checked through the Churchtown Congregational extracts and they aren't in there either.
Sorry took so long couldn't find the book 
Really must tidy up. Germaine x
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| Beryl |
So sorry not to have said a big thank you to you all for the help you are giving me. I don't want you to think I am not grateful!! I have been totally preoccupied with other things (sick grandchildren, Easter etc etc) for the last two weeks. I'm just about getting back into normality again now, so I shall contemplate what you have told me and get back again before too long. THANK YOU
Beryl |
| Beryl |
I've been stewing about all the info you have given me. As you say, it does look as though this is going to be a haul! I had been pinning some hopes on St Cuthberts or the Congregational Church ------ However, I've checked the Lancs Record Office website and it looks as though Holy Trinity and Christ Church records are there for the right period. So I am hoping that on my next trip to Lancs later in the year I might be able to get to Preston for a good old search around!
In the meantime I still keep wondering about the marriage cert I have for John Oxley and MARGARET Leadbetter. It was about the right time and the father of Margaret was given as Thomas (which is now what I think Elizabeth's father was called). BUT the name is wrong, they were living in Liverpool and I have found a Thomas Leadbetter on the census with a daughter Margaret of the right age. Oh dear! Anyway, thanks again to you all. If anyone has any more ideas about where next to look, I would be grateful. Beryl |
| Germaine |
Hi Beryl which census have you found a Margaret with a father Thomas I have been looking and can't see them .
What occupation did it give for Thomas on the cert. oh sorry if have I asked, forgot who were the witness. Germaine x
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| Beryl |
Hello Germaine
I found that Thomas (a fisherman) on the 1841 census. The daughter, Margaret, was 1 at the time. Possibly a bit young to be married in Janusry 1859 but---- On the certificate, Thomas was described as a farmer. The witnesses were David Hogan (which doesn't ring any bells) and Alice Wright (which does!) IF my Elizabeth is the daughter of the Thomas who was in Burscough on the 1851 census, then she had a older sister, Alice, who went on to marry Henry Wright. This Alice appears on the 1851 census as Alice Waight but is called Wright on the 1861 census, living with her parents and her children in Mount st. BUT Margaret Leadbetter also had an older sister called - Alice too! However, I haven't been able to find a Margaret and John Oxley on the 1861 census (2 years after their wedding) except for a pair in Warrington with children born before 1859. Still not conclusive, I know. Beryl |
| Germaine |
Hi Beryl I keep looking I think that the Thomas you have found in 1841 is the one I have that moved to Fleetwood by 1851. He is living with a son but no sign of his other children I haven't looked into it fully yet. He is on the side so to speak. So don't think that was him. Wife Margaret.
David Hogan not come across him and he doesn't show up in Liverpool in 1861. Is the John Oxley you found in Warrington in 1861 with a wife Elizabeth as I noticed the one I saw had a child age 6 born in Southport another mystery.?? These Wrights and Leadbetters so many and all with the same name. Going round in circles
Will have another look later. Germaine x
Well don't think the family in Warrington are anything to do with it. Have found a marriage for a John Oxley in 1853 no spouse given as the page wasn't readable but had a good look and no Elizabeth Leadbetter for the same year. Sorry if someone has already done this. So this marriage looks like the family of 1861 in Warrington. Germaine x |
| Beryl |
Thanks again, Germaine. Yes I do have a certificate for the 1953 John Oxley marriage. It took place in Southport (at "Trinity Church") but the wife was Elizabeth Moffat. I'm pretty sure they are ones with a young family in Warrington in 1861. The previous Southport connection would explain a child being born there. I also have a cert for yet another John Oxley marriage - this time in 1859 to Elizabeth Bent but that was in Congleton and that was where they appeared to be living in 1861.
SO, I am left with one vaguely possible recorded marriage but with the bride's first name as Margaret! Does anyone know whether it was possible for a name to appear on a certificate wrongly like this might have done. (I certainly know that my own grandmother's birth certificate had her mother's maiden name wrongly recorded) I have been trying to find if Mornington Road Methodist Church was conducting marriages in the late 1850's as I feel too that the family might have been non conformists. Later generations certainly were. |
| Germaine |
hi Beryl I wonder if the marriage wasn't reg at all and the only way to find it will be by parish records.
I have had a quick google about and foudn soem sites that might be of interest. I wonder if you email Lancashire Records Office to see if they have the records for those churches that they could have married at or failing that write to the vicar see if he will help. I know round here the Methodist church haven't handed over their records well not to the library. Son just arrived so if I think of anything else will let you know. Something to look at though Germiane x :grin: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Southport/ http://www.a2a.org.uk/html/1072-m287sou.htm http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41326 |
| Bez |
Although Civil Registration came in in 1837, it wasn't compulsory until Jan 1st 1874. Anglican marriages were registered automatically because (so far as I know) the minister acted as Registrar - as they do now. I do know that Roman Catholics had the problem of either paying for the Registrar to attend, or going through a second ceremony in an Anglican church. Often they did neither. I suspect the non-conformists might have been in a similar predicament, so the only proof you may have would be in a church register somewhere and I understand that many Methodist Churches ignored The Non-Parochial Registers Commission of 1837 (and subsequent ones) which required all non-conformist registers to be sent to the General Register Office in London.
You may find that some Methodist registers are held in a central location, but I haven't gone looking for any myself yet. Have you checked on the Family Search site? You can check the LRO catalogue online. |
| Beryl |
Thanks again. I have been looking around for non-conformist church records. So far I have discovered that the Public Record Office at Kew has non-conformist records from 1567 - 1840. Also Liverpool Record Office (City Libraries in William Brown Street) has a large stock of records called" Methodist Church: Liverpool District, Southport Circuit & Church Records" Ref code M287SOU. This is an interesting collection with some baptism and marriage records. Unfortunately for me the only marriage records are for one church, Mornington Road, but from 1862 onwards - just a bit too late! However it's possible someone else might find them useful. I'm still surfing for other sources - I have already tried Family Search without success. But it's very helpful to have such informed suggestions. I'll keep trying! |
| Dotty |
Good newsWell that's good for me to know as one of my line used that church.Dotty 
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| Beryl |
It's been months since I've been able to look again at my search for a record of my great grandparents (John Oxley and Elizabeth Leadbetter)marriage. My only trip "up north" was a rushed visit to family and friends with no time for a trip to LRO in Preston! I have resigned myself to having to wait until more marriage records become available on-line. In the meantime though I have sent for the birth cert of their second child, James, who was born in "Lime Kilns Southport". There was (maybe still is) a "Lime St" fairly near Mount st (where their first child was born) Does anyone know if Lime Kilns was around there in 1864? |
| Dotty |
Errr...Lime Street and Mount Street are not near each other as in next road over but in a car or a bike they are...what does anyone local think?Some of the streets in the Lime Street area are names after trees ie Oak St, Poplar St so am not sure if there was a Lime Kiln there or not. Dotty 
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| Jane |
Seacop has ancestors in the lime Kiln area. I think she got a wonderful photo of the area from the local reference library - but my memory isn't that good. No doubt she will reply on her next visit to the forum |
| Yvonne |
I know this is not him but a relation?????
The National Archives | Access to Archives North Meols, be registered as a Nonconformist place of worship QSP/2913/22 1829 18 May Order of removal of John Oxley, Nancy his wife and Marianne, This must be them in 1841 in Chorley John Oxley 40 Nancy Oxley 40 Mary Oxley 15 Nancy Oxley 15 Esther Oxley 14 William Oxley 12 Thomas Oxley 10 Alice Oxley 5 John Oxley 2 6 Mo |
| Beryl |
Thanks v. much - you North Meols folks are SO helpful! I was very intrigued by the news about "Removal orders". I had never explored the "Access to Archives" link so had to investigate straight away! (I've found the definition of "Removal Orders" and "Settlement" if anyone is interested)
I wondered at first if the John Oxley mentioned might have been father of my John but the ages don't tie up. Also, my John always says that he was born in Warrington. |
| SeaCopRimmer |
Lime Kilns was an area off Manchester Road (opposite side to where The Mount Pleasant Pub is now) and probably behind Mount Street. I do have a wonderful picture by Edwin Beattie of Lime Kilns Cottages; my stepfather's grandfather, Thomas Rimmer, was a carter of Lime Kilns on (I think) the 1871 Census. |
| Beryl |
That's really helpful news. I had hoped that Lime Kilns was near to Mount St as it would be another indication that my Elizabeth Oxley (formerly Leadbetter) was still living near to the Thomas Leadbetter (who might have been her father) and his family. |
| SeaCopRimmer |
If you check on old-maps.com, find a Southport map, go north and then find Holy Trinity Church, then follow Manchester Road along you will see Mount Pleasant - then scroll down slowly and you should be able to see Lime Kilns (it is possible to print off a copy as well). |
| Beryl |
Thanks so much, Seacop Rimmer, I can't wait to investigate further. I'm torn between spending time just now or disappearing in front of the tele to see the last "Who do you think you are?" I am very interested in your picture of Lime Kiln Cottages. More Later! |
| Germaine |
Hi Beryl. Just been rooting about the Elizabeth Leadbetter married in 1859 married William Wignall. Found them on the 1861 census . So that marriage can be discounted. Don't know if you had this but thought I would post it anyway.
Germiane. x
Elizabeth Leadbetter 16 John Leadbetter 14 Peter Leadbetter 12 Elizabeth Wignal 43 Henry Wignall 1 William Wignall 51 |
| Beryl |
Thanks again Germaine for your efforts on my behalf. Yes, I have a copy of the Marriage cert for Elizabeth L and William Wignall - that Elizabeth was a widow when she married WW and must have been a Rimmer before her first marriage. (Her father's name is given as John Rimmer).
On a different tack, I've just discovered the birth in 1861 of a boy (in the Ormskirk distrist) called John Thomas Oxley and his death in 1864. I have sent for his birth cert and am hoping that he turns out to be the child of my John and Elizabeth. The dates would fit in with what I know about them. Perhaps they named him after family and my guess that Elizabeth's father was the Thomas Leadbetter who was living in Mount St when they were living in the same area is right. Fingers crossed! |
| Germaine |
Wasn't sure so thought I would let you know.
Thought she must have been widowed they had children with her Leadbetters. Oh that does sound promising John Thomas. Hope they turn out to be in the same area. Hopefully same addres now that would be great. Good Luck Germaine x |
| Beryl |
Thanks Germaine! I got the birth cert today and was v v pleased to find that John Thomas Oxley, born July 1861, was the child of my John and Elizabeth. They were living at "Haweside, Southport" then so it looks as though Eizabeth just might have been the daughter of THOMAS!! What do you think??
Beryl |
| Germaine |
Hi Beryl certainly looks like it doesn't it. The childs middle name does point to it.
Now to find the elusive marrige. It must have been in the area. Germaine x :grin: |