| Archive for nmfhssouthport.myfreeforum.org North Meols (Southport) Family History Society |
| kaiello |
Searching Divorce RecordsHi Everyone,I live across the pond and don't know how to search divorce records to find out if my grandmother ever divorced her first husband in Ormskirk. I have been to the National Archives but find it a very difficult and confusing site on which to conduct searches. I know the code for divorce is j77 but cannot figure out how to search from online. As usual, thank you for any assistance you can offer. |
| Jane |
I had a look at TNA site. There is a list in the right hand side of the screne and one says DIVORCE
I clicked and got this page =- which really tells you what you need to know http://www.nationalarchives.gov.u...ilyhistory/divorce/?WT.hp=Divorce I doubt you can search online and may have to email TNA or get someone to search for you |
| kaiello |
TNA & Divorce RecordsJane,Thank you. I went to TNA and followed your instructions and was able to search using the surname. I did not see my grandmother and her first husband listed in the divorce petitions, so he either died, or she never divorced him, and married my grandfather though she was still married. What is interesting, and may be helpful to others, she and my grandfather left Canada, which was under British rule, and waited until they moved to the United States to marry, even though she was 6 months pregnant at the time. Would the Canadian government have had access to a record of my grandmother's marriage in England, and that is why she never married again until she came to the US? Thank you for all your help. |
| kaiello |
Pop-upsTo All,I am not savvy with the computer and don't know why this ad appeared in my last post. I find these very distracting and they have nothing to do with researching family history. Any advice on how to eliminate these ads would be helpful. Thank you. |
| ray green |
Hi Kathleen, your distant cousin Ray here. I am planning to go next week to TNA (Kew) and I am happy to give it a try but I shall need clear and simple instructions! |
| SeaCopRimmer |
Ray - if you go to one of the terminals on the first floor and do a global search (using the name) it should come up with the information you want (assuming it is there, of course); I was looking for information about an Arthur Brandon and his trip to Argentina, but when I did a search using only his name it came up with the divorce papers - so I ordered them and was able to read the whole sorry, sordid story 
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| Jane |
Keillo
1 - I doubt the Canadians would have checked british records to see if she was married already. People seem to get away with bigamy now........and they marry in this country 2 - Sorry but the adverts mean the society can run the forum for free. If we wanted to have a forum without then we would have to pay. Which would maybe mean no forum. |
| kaiello |
Canada & AdsJane,Thank you for letting me know about the ads. If they help finance the website I have no objection. I thought it was just something invasive that I was not controlling on my end. My grandmother's mystery continues, but that's much of the appeal of genealogy. I appreciate all your help. |
| kaiello |
Visit to KewRay,Thank you for your kind offer. Here is the information. If you need anything else, please let me know. I'm looking for record of a divorce. Clara Green: b. 1884 Ormskirk Mar 8b 819 John Gillies: b 1882 Wigan, Greater Manchester Dec 8c 30 married: 1902 Ormskirk Dec 8b 1329 |
| Dotty |
?Probably daft questions...but did you check if he married or died or was on any census thereafter?Dotty |
| kaiello |
Re: John Gillies & Clara Green Gillies divorceDotty,Because they were not married until 1902, they did not appear together on the 1901 census. The 1911 census isn't available yet, so I don't know whether they were still together as of that census. The ship records from the Mauritania, October 1911, on which Clara sailed under the alias of "Clara Gray," lists Clara's closest relative as Margaret Gregory of 42 Clifford Rd, Birkdale. However, I have no idea where her 7 year old son, William Allan Gillies, was living. Possibly with her sister, Ada, or half-sister, Mary. Or maybe he was with his father, John, who I have never been able to find. Clara's sister, Margaret Gregory, left England with her family and moved to Australia within a year or so of Clara's departure. The only information I have for John Gillies is from son, William Allan Gillies marriage certificate, which lists John Gillies, the father, as employed by Vulcan Motors in Southport in 1931. I've never found a death date for John Henry Gillies, father, William Allan Gillies, Clara's son, or William's wife, Ann (Nan) Wright Gillies, born about 1903. |
| Jane |
The 1911 census is available online - the index is free to search but you have to pay to see the entry
http://www.1911census.co.uk/ |
| Dotty |
Mmmm...I see what you mean...I shall have to ponder a bit!Dotty 
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| kaiello |
Re: John Gillies & Clara Green Gillies divorceJane & Dotty,Thank you. I have been trying to narrow down my search before I spend the money to look in to the 1911 census. There are so many options that I'm gleaning bits and pieces from the marriage & birth certificates that I sent for so that I can make an educated guess that will hopefully yield some results.[/quote] |
| Dotty |
YesA wise decision. I haven't dare go on findmypast yet as I'm sure I would spend a fortune.Dotty 
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| Yvonne |
When you do go on 1911 census it may be worth a look at this, if you haven't already found it.
HOUSEHOLD GILLIERS JOHN M 1882 29 Ormskirk Lancashire HOUSEHOLD GILLIERS HELEN F 1859 52 Ormskirk Lancashire HOUSEHOLD GILLIERS MAUD F 1890 21 Ormskirk Lancashire HOUSEHOLD GILLIERS WILLIAM M 1849 62 Ormskirk Lancashire HOUSEHOLD GILLIERS WILLIAM M 1904 7 Ormskirk Lancashire I put in the search John Surame Starting with G born 1882 +2 years born Wigan. It brought up a few names but this one seems very close 
Also if you go into a search for place and put Address CLIFFORD ROAD County Lancashire District Ormskirk Sub District BIRKDALE Residence SOUTHPORT 42 CLIFFORD ROAD BIRKDALE Southport Ormskirk Lancashire will come up then you could see who lives there |
| kaiello |
Re: Searching Divorce RecordsYvonne,Thank you for doing that research. I had never thought of just putting in a first initial to see what comes up. I'll check this out and try with other people I'm looking for. Thank you also for the info on searching an address in the census |
| kaiello |
Re: John "Gilliers"Yvonne,I just looked at your message again. I didn't realize that what you had researched was the actual 1911 census. You have solved a large part of the mystery of what happened to our uncle William when he was a child. William and John must have returned to John's parents' home so that he could work and his mother could care for William. This knowledge will enable me to search for him later in directories, etc. I just checked the names and ages against my records of the 1891 census and this must be my family. I can't thank you enough. I know you must have used some of your credits to search, so I would like to reimburse you for your time and credits spent. Would you PM me with your address, please? Thank you, again. |
| Dotty |
BingoWhat a splendid result...I'm sure that many of our 'mysteries' are simply badly transcribed information.
I was once looking for a particular Rigby family and there was no sign of them on the 1901 census until I searched the whole area bit by bit and found them but their name had been transcribed as RIGLEY... 
Dotty 
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| Yvonne |
Kathleen, I didn't use any credits at all.
To let you know how I did it for future purposes. Go to the Full census search Personal details - put the name etc When the person you think is the right one. Go back to full search Just put in just surname this time plus residential place in personal details making sure you delete other details like year of birth etc, then scroll down to other members of household Put in first and surname then that should bring up all members of the household. It ususally works but sometimes as in this case the surname vary. To get proper info though you would have to buy credits to check the relationships and where they were living etc. Hope I have explained it so you can understand. |
| SeaCopRimmer |
That could be very useful - thank you Yvonne; wonder how long it will take them to catch up on this loophole
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| Yvonne |
Seacop, I have been doing it this way since they closed that 'big' loophole, so quite some time now.
It doesn't really give you any info but if you just want to know who else is in the household it does help Not sure how it would cope with Rimmer's though
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| Dotty |
I bet...Well that sounds like a plan to me...I shall give it a go later on!Dotty
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| kaiello |
Re: GilliesYvonne,Thank you so much for taking the time to do the search! North Meols/Southport remains my favorite site, not only because of the information, but more importantly, because of the helpful and generous members who so willingly share their time and knowledge with us less experienced, out of the area folks. Thank you also for the tips on how to get around the census until you know you have a correct match. I can now go in and search for Clara, my grandmother. She didn't leave England until October of 1911, so she was living with someone, possibly family. The other thing that I find that is curious - Maud Pollick, who appeared as the adopted daughter of the William Gillies family in the 1891 census, does not appear with the family in the 1901 census. I thought she may have died, but here she is with them again in 1911. I find that strange. If you ever need anything from across the pond, please let me know. |
| Jane |
I must be thick...I followed your instruction Yvonne for my Grandad. Maybe its the name.....Ernest mason.
I got a list of Mason's but I know they were not all his family. Obviously it only works with a rarer surname or I'm not following things correctly kaiello Glad you find all us a helpful lot. I know people have helped me from places my ancestors lived and how grateful I was. So i try to do the same. 
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| kaiello |
Re: Searching 1911 CensusJane,I had to fiddle with this a bit. I believe you have to know the street address so it will zero in on one location. I tried it both ways, and unless there's just one family in the area, you get all the families unless you provide a specific address. I did find who was living at 42 Clifford Rd. |
| Dotty |
I say...I bet Maud is there somewhere but wrongly transcribed. She could be at her place of work, on holiday, in hospital or even in prison...Good hunting Dotty
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| Yvonne |
Jane, if you put another name at the bottom ie someone who you know that should be around in the same family then that may narrow down the Mason's.
Sometimes I have to put the wife's name, and sometimes the first names or surnames are not spelt as they should be. I found a Howard who was down as Floward  and an Alfred who was listed as Alfed but I found him by putting in one of his children's names instead.
If you would like me to have a look let me know the details, but I must admit it doesn't always work, I still cannot find my grandfather and gt grandfather/gt grandmother
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| Jane |
Thanks for the offer but I was just seeing if I could work out what to do.
The ones I need to find I shall wait for. No idea where in the country they may be. I have a certain person who did vanish. She was married to my grandad and we can't find anything after the 1901 census.............we believe she may have gone to Ireland or even abroad. |
| ray green |
I promised to look for a Gillies divorce at Kew for Kiello which I duly did without success. I found twelve Gillies divorces covering a century but not our man. Apparently at the relevant time all divorce cases were heard in the Supreme Court in London so not much chance of any relation of mine, however distant, getting involved in that kind of expense.
PS I did however have more success in researching the FWW records on behalf of a woman who contacted me on G.R. about a possible match (in fact no connection) who wanted to know about her GGF who she thought was K.I.A. In fact in 1920 he was court marshalled for deserting from a hospital in Warrington!! He lost 42 days pay which is rather better than being shot at dawn. |
| kaiello |
Re: Kew search for divorce recordsRay,You are so kind to have searched for the John & Clara Gillies divorce record for me. I can't thank you enough. I'm sure my grandmother did not have money to pursue a divorce in London, which is probably why she changed her name and left England to go to a country where she was sure she couldn't be traced. Thank goodness her daughters have both passed. Isn't family history full of surprises! Thank you again. |
| Jane |
this might sound like a daft question but................how did people afford to emigrate back then? |
| Dotty |
Well...Now I know two things about emigration...little and nothing but I've watched loads of flicks over the years and there used to be more 'levels' of travel.Trains used to have a third class (I think you sat on the roof!) Boats had a steerage class which meant you travelled in the bowels of the boat and had a bucket as a bathroom! The accomodation was shared and the poor folk didn't pay enough to complain... That's my understanding of it but I'm sure more knowledgable folk will come along to clarify things even more.
Dotty
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| ray green |
My grandfather David Conway of Little Ireland would regularly travel to New York to work as a bricklayer. At first he would "work his passage" and I remember him saying that you could not believe how much water cows drink! I always assumed there were cows on board to provide fresh milk and he fed and watered them but who knows. Latterly he could afford to pay for his ticket. |
| Jane |
If anyone has been to the Maritime museum in Liverpool they would have seen how the slaves were transported .........so maybe similar for poor people later on |
| SeaCopRimmer |
Many people went to the Americas as 'bonded' passengers which meant they did work for the ship whilst travelling or when they arrived at their destination. In 1692 (ish) John Rimmer sailed as a 'bonded' passenger; on the same ship, The Charity, were Frederick and Edward Rimer, of Germany, both carpenters who travelled up to Philadelphia then back to Virginia whilst John Rimmer eventually became Master of The Planter sailing regularly between Virginia and Liverpool; on latter ship's listing he became Mr Rimmer! |
| Dotty |
ThanksGood of you to share that information Ray, Jane and Seacop...I knew I could count on some other peeps to come along and give some better updates.Mrs Dotty |
| kaiello |
Re: EmmigrationIn the case of my grandmother, a question was asked on the ship manifest that had to do with whether or not she had $50 upon arrival to the US, if not, how much she had, and who paid for the passage. She had $50, had paid for the passage herself, and was a second cabin passenger. How she managed this in 1911 when she did not live with her husband and son, and must have supported herself, or at least contributed to a household, I can't imagine. But, then, she made 2 trips back to Southport in the years following the depression in the US, in 1935 and again in 1937, and my grandfather was a trolley driver back in Rochester, New York, US. |
| Jane |
Some of my husband's ancestors emigrated to America. One was married to someone who worked on the White Star Line. She and her daughter made frequent trips back to Southport so I am guessing they got cheap fares because of her husband's job
His Great Uncle was the first to emigrate and I know he became a fireman in new York. So maybe he was assisted because of his trade/occupation I wonder kaiello if there was help from other family? Someone else has suggested that people may have got help from their church |
| kaiello |
Re: EmmigrationInteresting thought, Jane. Her sisters may have helped. I never thought of the Church giving assistance. I also didn't realize that a potential employer would help, but it makes sense, if they were offering jobs to those who would choose to emigrate. My great Aunt and her family emigrated to Australia a year after my grandmother left England. |
| Jane |
Obviously she liked it and they saw it as a better life. What did she do when she got there? Job wise I mean. It might help work out how & why she went. Maybe her employers were from here. Or someone she knew had gone and she followed
Much the same reasons as people emigrate today I suppose |
| kaiello |
Re: EmigrationMy grandmother landed in New York first but sailed on to Quebec and lived there for three years. She said that she worked at Eatons, a department store, in the office. She later worked in a department store part-time after she came to the States. |
| Jane |
I wonder who she travelled with. Maybe a friend went too?
Don't we wish we could have asked all these things years ago....I was told so much by my Grandma but there was so much i just never thought to ask. |
| kaiello |
Re: EmigrationShe did not travel with anyone. Apparently she was trying to escape, undetected, because she changed her last name for the ship passage. She said that she was going to Montreal to meet her husband. However, he was living with his parents and their 7 year old son in Southport. I will check the manifest again, now that you mention it, and see if she may have traveled with someone. |
| bobg |
Kathleen,
Information on the T Eaton Company can be found at: http://ao.minisisinc.com/scripts/...ACTSDESC/REFD+F+229?SESSIONSEARCH This once well established Canadian company went out of business in the 1990's. It was still owned by descendants of the founder Thomas Eaton. Bob |
| kaiello |
Re: EmigrationBob,Thank you. I'll check this Eaton's website and post anything helpful that comes out of it. |