Dotty
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The Portland BreweryDoes anyone know where the Portland Brewery was?
It sounds like it should be near Portland Street.
Any help would be appreciated by our Historian.
Dotty :?:
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bobg
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The Portland BreweryCould it have been associated with the Portland Hotel on Bedford Road on the corner of Kew Road?
Bob
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SeaCopRimmer
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The Portland Brewery was, supposedly, situated on Portland Street near to the junction of King Street; rumour has it that it went back as far as the Cheshire Lines railway - but that is pure conjecture 
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Jane
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Dave looked at our tithe map and says -
"The Portland Brewery is not indicated on the Tithe Map as what is now
King St ( there was no Portland St. then )
as the land was not tithed hence no numbers. There are buildings there
in the area but nothing to say what they are"
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SeaCopRimmer
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I've found it on old-maps.co.uk
It is very close to Upper King Street and I've printed off a copy and will post it off to Aunty Pat tomorrow - no I won't 'cos the posties are on strike so if I go as far as Birkdale I'll post it through her letter box - will that make me a 'scab' for crossing a picketer
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Jane
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What year have you found it Seacop?
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SeaCopRimmer
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It was on an 1848 map - Aunty Pat said it was round about 1840-50 that the person thought it was there (I think); I put Southport in for search and moved around until I saw it; it is quite clearly marked. It definitely didn't go down as far as the Cheshire Lines
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Dotty
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Great news...Thanks so much for all your help Jane, seacop and bob.
I'm sure Aunty Pat will be grateful and so will the lady from the USA.
TTFN
Dotty :grin:
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deverick
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Oooh! I know the Portland Brewery - it was my gggggfather Richard Ball's address in 1858 & 1861. I'm wondering who's interested in it and why - maybe a rellie of mine? I may be able to help.
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SeaCopRimmer
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One of our Committee Members was looking for it for a lady from America; we have a Committee Meeting tomorrow evening so will see if we can get a name?
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Yvonne
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Now I know why the Portland Brewery rang a bell when I was looking at the "Register of Leases of the Bold and Scarisbrick Estates 1763-1867" yesterday at the Library.  - could have noted the details. 
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Jane
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Yvonne they sound interesting. Was this Southport reference library? May have a nose myself when I'm in next week
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Yvonne
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Yes it was Jane. It was quite interesting as on some of the leases they listed the person as Dead but there are a few that give the actual date of death.
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Jane
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It might be something worth transcribing for the society. I shall be having a word with Matthew in the library next week :grin:
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Yvonne
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Thought I would give a couple of examples of what to expect, although not all are the same, remembering that I was just looking at Howard's..
Life Leases granted by Miss Ann Maria Bold
Lease No 62
Date 1764
Lessee William Howard
Name of lives
Jennet Howard 19 Dead
Jennet Howard 10 Dead
Wm. Howard 7 died 24 Nov 1843
Remarks; Part of New Marsh called the Dock No 5 in the plan. Wm Howard Crossens.
and another that caught my eye, simply by mentioning a Hamlet Cropper 
Lease No. 45
1804
Lessee Robert Cropper
Number of Lives
Robert Cropper 27 Dead
Alice Cropper 25
Hamlet Cropper 17 Dead
Remarks ; Called the Lythe near? Crossens, owned now by Wm Bond, Banks
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ray green
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it certainly is interesting, but what do they mean? Are the numbers ages and if so why would a minor be mentioned in connection with a lease? Sometimes out of boredom I look at my "hot connections" on Genes R (they are surely breaching the trade descriptions act) and I get hundreds for Hamlet Cropper. Is it because it is such a great name that everybody wants him on their tree or did he go jiggy with all the girls in North Meols?
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Yvonne
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Ray,
I think with most people who have Croppers on their trees, everyone gets back to Hamlet Cropper and can not get any further with him, despite it being an unusual name. Well that seems to be my impression anyway. Don't think he was the Casanova of North Meols
I think, regarding the leases, that the date of the lease is how old the people are, and once all three are dead then the lease ceases. But I may be wrong, I am sure someone will correct me if I am as I haven't had any thing to do with leases before now.
Yvonne
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Bez
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| ray green wrote: | | it certainly is interesting, but what do they mean? Are the numbers ages and if so why would a minor be mentioned in connection with a lease? |
Leases for lives were the usual form before years were introduced. It was common to put children down as some of the lives as it was hoped that they would live for a very long time. When a person named on a lease died a new name could usually be added with the agreement of the landowner (for a fee, often known as a "fine"). The only drawback of this form of lease was that the term of the lease was unknown. This was not a problem in earlier times, but later on the landowners wanted to know how long the land was going to be tied up for (especially if they had some project in mind) so they started to refuse to add names to the lease and began to issue leases for a fixed number of years instead.
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