Meadows

Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 173 Location: Fleetwood

That is why it is taking me so long Dotty . It is all fine scribbly and in old English. Have to wait till no one about so I can lay it out on the floor and then get on my kneees and do a bit at a time. Hard work getting up Very Happy

Interesting though. I have now found a will and a marriage settlement waiting for Preston to tell me how much they will be . They are for a Shadrach Sutton but the will names some of the Meadows as benefactors so that will be interesting. One of the Meadows married a Hannah/ Ann Sutton and they are named as deceased and the money togo to there children so that has narrowed down when they died for me. it is amazing what help these documents can be.

Germaine
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Very Happy

Bez · Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:30 am Post subject:

Hi Germaine, it's a lease for 3 lives, very common type of document. Dated 1802 it should be quite easy to read but probably isn't because you haven't done many and your eyes aren't used to it or the language employed (such as "appurtenances"). I suppose it's too big to scan or scale down to A4 on a photocopier? I could almost write it out but there are a couple of bits I can't fill in from your transcription and spelling varied depending on who wrote it. However, it's a very straightforward document, but by the 19th century they got to be so long-winded with all of that legal jargon.

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Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 173 Location: Fleetwood

Hi Bez. I will take it to the post office see if it will scan down smaller. Though I do think it will be too big. Must admit I don't understand a lot of the words and like you say they were very long winded.
So it was for 3 lives that is interesting. What I can't understand is it says Scarisbrick but I do know that James 1791 was Miller in Churchtown till later than 1831. Perhaps one of the others had this mill . I don't think it was Churchtown mill was it.? Though this James did use St. Cuthberts after 1770.
It is very helpful though as it names family and I have been able to tie the families together for definate.
Thanks Germaine
x Very Happy

Bez · Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:29 am Post subject:

I did have a look at the Apportionment Book for the tithe map (1839) and there was a James Meadows leased 5 plots in Mill Lane, Churchtown, but I wasn't sure which James this might be as 2 of the grandsons named on the lease had the same name. Also the landowner was Sir Henry Bold Hoghton but the owner of the Scarisbrick property was Thomas Eccleston, Esquire.

But yes, this was Churchtown Mill; the property described on the lease was in Scarisbrick - so you need an early map of Scarisbrick to look for the Mill Hey- the name of the field where it was situated.

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Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 173 Location: Fleetwood

Thanks Bez. Do think there must have been 2 mills don't you think.
I do know that James Meadows b 1744 was the one mentioned on the first lease but the one in 1839 I would think was the James born 1791 as the other would have been so old!!!. he was James 1744 grandson. Oh now this is getting stranger as in 1841 William Gregson James SIL was the miller . Do you think that James 1791 would have been alive in 1839 will this narrow down when he died I can't find his death yet.
Unless this was the first lease still running I found an old map of Churchtown and there was a field called Mill Hey but like you say the lease says Scarisbrick. Oh I did see something on a site once about a field think it was called that in Upholland ?? think I will be busy this weekend looking at the old maps site see if I can find anything.
Thanks again
Germaine
x Very Happy

Jane · Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:28 am Post subject:

Thomas Eccleston - he owned Scarisbrick hall. he had changed his surname from Scarisbrick when he married into the Eccleston family - more to do with getting his hands on their land and money.

Charles changed it back to Scarisbrick when he inherited the hall after his Thomas's death.

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Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 173 Location: Fleetwood

Thanks Jane I think I have read this somewhere. If I am right he died in about 1805 not long after the date on the lease.
Old maps off at the mo for maintenance. They would be when I needed them Sad

Germaine
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Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 173 Location: Fleetwood

Sorry I was wrong when I said Upholland I should have said Downholland. Embarassed

This is what I found but the dates from the remains of the mill they have found there are of what would be a different mill but the field names look the same. Would you think that this is the place in the lease? Do you think perhpas james built his mill on the site of the old mill.?
The tithe map of 1847 lists several field names that provide a picture of the parish in the past. It includes Pinfold field where the stray animals were impounded until their owners claimed them, and also, Brick Kiln Hey alongside Downholland Hall. That would have been the place where clay was dug and the bricks were burnt in a kiln in readiness for the buildings of the Hall. Between the canal and the main Southport road are Delph Hey and Great Delph Hey, suggesting the site of an old quarry and indeed the contours of the land today confirm this possibility.

However perhaps the most interesting field names are Mill Hey, Lower Mill Hey and Great Mill Hey sited on the highest ground on the Southport road south of Haskayne canal bridge. This was the site of the village windmill - possibly the mill that was mentioned in a legal dispute in 1323. Several field paths used by the tenants when they brought their corn to be ground at the mill, still converge on the site today. Among the Quarter Sessions Petitions for 1662 is the miller’s plea to the justices for help because `the windmill was so shaken with the late boisterous and turbulent wind that unfortunately all the roof of the said milne was blown off and the said milne is now in danger to go to utter ruin’. What help he received is not recorded. Unfortunately the mill was demolished many years ago but the red sandstone outcrop on which it was built has recently been excavated by the farmer.
Germaine
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Bez · Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:00 am Post subject:

I would have thought that Downholland was a bit too far away - in any case the lease would have said Downholland. I would have thought that Scarisbrick Hall would have had its own mill anyway and the lease did mention a common boundary with Thomas Eccleston's land. (His paddock to be exact). It also gives you the plot number (141) on the plan of the survey of Scarisbrick - this would be a survey commissioned by the landowner so it might be an idea to ask at the LRO. It says it consists of ¼ of an acre, but it doesn't mention a mill, only that James is of North Meols and is a miller, and that the field was called Mill Hey. You really need to look at the survey to see if there is a mill marked on it for that plot.

Leases for 3 lives ran until all 3 people named on them were dead, unless the landowner agreed to add a life when someone died (for a further fee, of course).

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Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 173 Location: Fleetwood

Hi Bez.
Don't know my geography too well to know where is where. Embarassed

Ah now I see i hadn't thought about it belonging to the Hall. Another thing to add to my list of things to look at when I get to the records office.
The lease was definately to build a new Mill Couldn't get the document out today ( kids and dogs Smile

) but it does mention a Wind Corn Mill also there is mention of a 2 storey house think it said with 2 bay windows.
Perhaps it is one of the other sons that had the Mill in Scarisbrick at the time when James was in Churchtown. The James in Churchtown was the grandson of James that the lease was made out to. But one of his sons George could have been in Scarisbrick or one of the other Grandsons.
The whole family seem to be millers.
Just had a look on the old maps site. There is a mill marked in Scarisbrick the map is 1847 so could this be it.
Sorry for being such a pain and a bit thick!!!
thanks Germaine
x Very Happy

Bez · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject:

For the mill - sounds likely if you've found it on a map. The house might have been a "two bay" house rather than having 2 bay windows - not a very big house at all. A five bay house would be rather large.

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Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 173 Location: Fleetwood

Thanks

That is interesting about the house will double check later when I can get to the floor. What does bay mean wass it a sort of measurement.
Germaine
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Bez · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject:

The bays were the bits between the upright posts forming the house. Probably easier to draw than describe.

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Germaine · Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 173 Location: Fleetwood

Ah i know what bays are now I was watching Grundy's Northern Pride and he explained.
Germaine
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Bez · Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:29 am Post subject:

I must have missed that bit then.

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