Hodge

Bez · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:05 am Post subject:

There is however, a bus service to Preston and an elderly neighbour down the road used to go on a regular basis to the record office by bus. It is, of course, easier by car and I can go door to door.

Liverpool is difficult to access for me for a number of reasons. If I were to go by train, then I face a long walk apparently - my late partner's brother, who lives in Crosby, thinks it's too far for me to walk. A taxi is an expensive option on top of the train fare. There is disabled parking outside the Record Office but I understand that one needs to get there very early to be sure of a free space. I know there are multistorey car parks but I find Liverpool a very confusing place to drive around so prefer to avoid it if at all possible.

The other possibility is the bus, but that is something I need to check out.

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Middle-aged and seeking the middle-ages!

HodgePodge · Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 85 Location: Liverpool

Central Station is a bit of a walk, but if it helps, Lime St is only across the road (with subway access), and you can get a train one stop from Central to Lime St at no extra cost if you're paying.

I have a blue badge, that my partner uses when dropping me off & picking me up, and we've always found spaces midweek.

I just feel that holding records at Preston is effectively excluding non-drivers from visiting, bearing in mind that it's at the north of the old Lancashire area, and still holds many records that relate to places now in a different county. Travel is long, infrequent and expensive to Preston from Southport compared to Liverpool.

At the very least, it would be nice to have access to microfilm copies of any holdings that specifically relate to areas now in Merseyside.

SeaCopRimmer · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject:

This debate is getting a little negative about Preston - the walk from Lime Street Station is short - but the change to travel to Lime Street is long and not one to be taken lightly by those who have difficulties!
It is very easy to get to Bow Lane by bus - but in the North Meols (S) FHS we do try and help our members and I, for one, am always willing to take members to Preston if they wish to visit.
Whilst I agree that Liverpool records should be kept by Lancashire Record Office they are not and we have to live with it - and Preston, incidentally, is not at the north end of the County (old or new) - and never has been. My two-pennorth Exclamation

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I may be a shrimp but I'm BIG on family history

Dotty · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: Duel...

Pistols at dawn girls....

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Family History is moo-sic to my ears!

HodgePodge · Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 85 Location: Liverpool

LOL...I was just voicing a little bugbear of mine... though I thought my last message was trying to be fairly positive about access to Liverpool/disabled parking etc. I have always accepted that Preston is the main record office for our region and would have no problem with records being held there if only records relevant to Merseyside were duplicated at Liverpool (I'd be happy for them to be in microfilm format)

Hopefully one day this will be less of an issue if such records will be made available electronically in the future.

Anyway, no offence was intended, and I hope none taken... it would be a very silly thing to fall out over, seeing as we mere mortals have no control over the decision of where to keep them anyway!

SeaCopRimmer · Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject:

Agreed and no offence taken (or intended)

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I may be a shrimp but I'm BIG on family history

Bez · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:20 am Post subject:

You can actually glean a lot from the A2A site once catalogues are online - depending on how well documents have been written up in the Record Office "calendars". If you find something which interests you it is always worth clicking on the full catalogue entry as there is often additional information.

Personally I'd like to see Liverpool records duplicated at Preston - maybe we should have a petition about it?

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Middle-aged and seeking the middle-ages!

HodgePodge · Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 85 Location: Liverpool

Not a bad idea about the petition. I agree that Liverpool Record Office material would be useful at Preston... in fact, I'm surprised it's not, with Preston being the primary record office for the original Lancashire. Don't they even have the microfilms of the church records?

It would be quite a mammoth task to microfilm all these manorial records, but they have microfilmed larger bodies of material (church records)... as this stuff is public data which is free to access in the record offices themsleves, wouldn't it be fabulous if future/repeated microfilming was done digitally and made available free or cheaply to view online?

I know some online material is already available for the central archives, and it's not priced too badly at £3.50 (even having something scanned from scratch is only about £7 and takes a few hours to come through), but I'd love to see all records, particularly local ones, available this way at some point.

I have found A2A useful just from the index at times, particularly for the Maintenance and Filiation orders... the farm of William's needed checking, though, as the index only gives his name and the date, not the lives on the lease etc

Dotty · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: Petition

Glad you've kissed and made up...if you ever get the petition sorted Bez I'll sign it!

Dotty

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Family History is moo-sic to my ears!

HodgePodge · Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 85 Location: Liverpool

I would love to get to Lancs to view the 1809 plan of Birkdale, which they seem to have there, as the Liverpool one was just a copy (and a more recent one, it seems)... though the survey of the same year supplies numbers that look like they are map references, the plan itself has no corresponding numbers on it. It also has modern roads drawn in pencil over the top and some road names marked in pen which I'm sure didn't exist in 1809, such as Everton Road, which I think may cover part of what would've been Mill Lane at the time.

However, if the Lancs plan is an exact copy of the Liverpool one, it would be wasted journey (not to mention the £13 rail fare)

Bez · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:54 am Post subject:

That sounds a bit like the plan published in a book produced by the Birkdale and Ainsdale Historical Research Society. I believe Andrew Farthing had a lot to do with that (because he told me that he'd superimposed a modern map over an old one of Birkdale) but it wasn't easy to do because of the different scales used.

Have you thought about phoning the LRO and asking them if they have the original?

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Middle-aged and seeking the middle-ages!

HodgePodge · Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 85 Location: Liverpool

The B&A made a large print of the 1845 tithe with the modern map superimposed, which I bought recently. According to this, John Pye was running what we believe is the Hodge farm which was being run by Tom Hodge in 1841 (the position of Aindows and the mill either side in the census supports the believed position, Birkdale Mews being the original farm building). Tom had left for his own farm on Heathy Lane by 1851, and the farm was on the 3 lives until 1869, so I can only assume that John Pye was running the farm on their behalf, as Tom had done before him.

There are some hand-drawn sections of the 1809 manorial plan in the Old Birkdale and Ainsdale book which do include names of the fields etc, but the section I'm interested in isn't duplicated.... however, this does suggest that the Lancashire RO plan does include names or numbers relating to the survey (though Liverpool Record Office doesn't appear in the references, and the survey book is held there).

This is where having the records in 2 different places, and not having microfilms of each others' holdings becomes an issue... the detailed plan, with names of tenants being in one place, and it seems the original plan with the required references is in another.

HodgePodge · Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 85 Location: Liverpool

An update on my Hodge family, we've long had a puzzle on what happened John Hodge, my GGG grandfather's elder brother, who was said to have fought at Waterloo.

I ran a search on the National Archives and found an index listing for discharge papers for John Hodge of MAILO, Lancashire 1810-1824, aged 34.

it was a little vague about what the dates referred to, but if he had been discharged in 1824, then the age was a great match for our John born 1790. Also, not having any knowledge of a place called Mailo in Lancs, I hoped this was a misspelling of Meols.

I ordered a copy of the papers and came back with the following:

8th (or King's) regt of Foot. Colonel General Edmund Stevens.

These are to certify that Private John Hodge born in the parish of Mailo in
or near the town of Ormskirk in the county of Lancaster was enlisted in the
aforesaid Regiment at Manchester in the county of Lancaster on the 17th day
of December 1810 at the age of tweny for unlimited service.

That he served in the army for the space of Fourteen Years and Ninety Six
Days, after the age of Eighteen, according to the subjoined

Statement of Service

8th Foot
From: 17th Dec 1810 to: 22nd March 1825. A private for 14 years and 96 days

That by Authority of The Dept Adjutant General's Letter dates Horse Guards
3rd Dec 1824 he is hereby discharged in consequence of General ill health
induced in the service. Wounded in the right leg at Fort George the 27th May
1812 in action with the enemy (signature I can't read)

That his general conduct as a soldier has been: Bad - he appears to have
been wounded in the right leg at Fort George the 27th May 1813 in action
with the enemy.

I Private John Hodge do hereby acknowledge that I have received all my
clothing, pay, arrears of pay and all just demands whatsoever, from any time
of my entry into the service to the time of my discharge.
Certified by John Hannay Capt (commanding the troop or company)
Signature of the Soldier: John X Hodge (his mark)

To prevent improper use being made of this discharge, by its falling into
other hands, the following is a description of the said Private John Hodge.
He is about 34 years of age, is five feet 4 1/2 inches in height, brown
hair, brown eyes, dark complexion, and by trade or occupation a labourer.

??? (obscured by seal) hand, and seal of the regiment, at Plymouth this 24th
day of Dec 1824

Signature of commanding officer Edw? Melville Browne Major Comm

Horse Guards 22nd Mar 1825, confirmed for ?????? (can't read)

The front of the discharge paper reads:

8 foot
John Hodge
age 34
served 14 3/12

General Ill Health & wounded in right leg

Mailo
Ormskirk
Lanc
6d (not sure what this relates to, appears to be relating to money!)
5 4 1/2
Bro Bro Dark Lab

What this tells us is that John did not fight at Waterloo, in fact, did not serve in Europe at all during the Napoleonic Wars, instead he served mainly in Canada, guarding (and occasionally losing) the border between Canada and America. It is possible that he served in Corfu after this time, when there was something of a scuffle with the Greeks.

I've done some research on Fort George, and the action focused on the dates 25th-27th May 1813, with the Americans pushing towards the Fort over a couple of days. There was a battle at the Fort itself on the 27th May, which the Americans won, forcing the British and Canadian troops to retreat.

It's likely that Fort George was replaced with Waterloo in the retelling within the family, as the latter sounds more impressive, and by the mid-late 19thC few people probably remembered the Canadian battle.

We have family anecdotal information about a number of places that John lived in North Meols & Birkdale, which one would assume means he returned home after leaving the army (being only 20 when he joined, it's unlikely he had so many homes before he left). The Birkdale residence was near the Mill, close to Tom's home at the present Alma Rd/Liverpool Rd junction.

That being so, I believe I have tracked him down after his service.

In November 1825 John Hodge married Ann Marshall, witnessed by Martha Marshall, both sisters of my GGG grandmother, Ellen Marshall (John's sister-in-law).

Almost all Hodge records of Birkdale at the time can be attributed to my GGG grandparents Tom & Ellen. Aside from these, there are just 3 records in Birkdale:

Mary Hodge b 1826 to John Hodge, Labourer and Ann
Ellen Hodge burial 1827 aged 5 weeks
John Hodge burial 1829 infant

So Mary is John's daughter. Ellen is likely to be his. John has to be, as Tom & Ellen already had a living son of this name by then.

So John & Ann pretty certainly had children Mary and John, and possibly a 2nd daughter named Ellen.

John and Mary were the names of John & Tom Hodge's parents.

John's wife, Ann, died in 1834 aged 35. John appears to have died in 1839

John's only surviving child, Mary, married Richard Sumner but did not have any living childn in any census return. She died in 1886 aged 63.

André · Joined: 11 Mar 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Amsterdam

Now that I've turned to finding the grandchildren of my ancestors and their families, I'm also finding the surname HODGE (more than once).

I found an Ellen HODGE marrying my relative Thomas BLUNDELL on 9th May 1819 in North Meols. She was possibly christened 11th jan 1795, the daugther of William HODGES and Betty (can't find a marriage).

Their daughter Elizabeth BLUNDELL chr. 02 Dec 1821 in Christ Church marries to a Henry HODGE born around 1819 in Scarisbrick (died 1894).
Does anyone know who Henry HODGE's parents were?

HodgePodge · Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 85 Location: Liverpool

Yes, Ellen is part of my family. She was the daughter of my GGGGG uncle William Hodge and his wife, Betty (no surname known). My GGG grandfather worked for William on his farm at the corner of the present Liverpool Rd/Alma Rd. The farm building survives as Birkdale Mews, behind the shops on Liverpool Rd.

William and Betty didn't live in Birkdale much, though occasional residence there is noted in events around 1800. William's first known lease is of the North fishing stall at Birkdale in 1799, just a few weeks before his 3 sons were drowned at sea (a younger sister witness the tragedy). The lease was rewritten at no charge to address the sudden loss of the lives listed on it.

William then leased the farm in 1807, amongst the sons named on it is Richard Hodge, father of Charles, the coxwain who died in the Eliza Fernley disaster (refuting all previous claims, including Bulpit's, that Charles was from a different branch)... it is confirmed that this is the same Richard, as his death is marked on the lease in 1869, the same date as is given in the probate books for Charles' father.

The assumption that Richard was son of a different William & Betty comes from the fact that our W&B baptised a number of children, all in South Haws except the last in Birkdale. A William then married Betty Andow and subsequent W&B children (in South Haws) are attributed to this couple, the first being a Richard who matches in age to Charles' father.

I haven't yet determined whether there were 2 William and Bettys and whether Richard was ours, or belonged to another couple but did not survive/stay in the area. It's possible that all the W&B children were ours and that either the other couple moved (possible Scarisbrick)... or were even our couple who married some time into their relationship. However, this requires Betty to have been reproducing for a long time. It's also possible that our William married 2 women of the same forename.

However, Richard is the youngest child to be mentioned on any of the 3 known leases.

In 1811, William took out a lease from the Fleetwood Hesketh estate (Southport). This included the names of his daughters Nanny, Betty & Ellen (aged 17 at the time).

There is another lease dated 1823 which mentions your Thomas Blundell, taken out by Robert Hodge, William's son, which names himself and his nephews James Jump, son of Gilbert and R Blundell aged 1, son of Thomas.

William and his sons mostly lived in South Haws, in particular in King St, and generally worked as fishermen. Thomas worked on the farm for William, and for his sons after William's death in 1837. Tom stayed there until the 1840s, when he moved to his own farm on Heathy Lane, Halsall. The Hodge farm was then managed by John Pye, though technically remained in Hodge hands until Richard's death in 1869. I suspect that the Blundell family may have bought out the tenants' rights to farm the land and placed their own farmers there so they could vacate the land as soon as tenants came available to develop the land into residential properties, as Tom left around the time that the Birkdale Park plan was born. His neighbour, Isabella Andow, also left her farm to open a boarding house in Southport in the same period.

Sorry, I'm prattling on a bit here.... I absolutely LOVE this family... I have so much on them, and hope to expand on them further.

I have photos of the grave of Ellen Hodge & Thomas Blundell:

Sacred to the memory of
Thomas Blundell of Southport
Butcher
Who departed on the ninth of
April 1844 aged 53 years

Here lieth the body of Ellen
wife of the above Thomas Blundell
who departed on the
?? (5th?) day of June 1860
Aged 66 years

I'll leave it there for now... or I could ramble about them all day.

HodgePodge

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