Old sayings

Jane · Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:24 am Post subject:

BRASS MONKEY WEATHER

The brass racks on which a ship's cannonballs were stored, during the Napoleonic wars, were known as monkeys. In cold weather the balls shrank and fell off!

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SeaCopRimmer · Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject:

Well, they'd be safe this week wouldn't they Laughing

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Bez · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject:

Sorry, Jane but I need to correct you on this one. Unfortunately I can't give you the exact quote as my copy of E Cobham Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable is a later addition and has been "brought up to date" with the inclusion of many "recent" phrases. This has meant that some older ones have been omitted. Happens all the time - this is the reason I kept my original Nurses Dictionary from the early 60's as the later addition doesn't have the older terminology.

This was confirmed to me by an old sailor who started his naval career at HMS Ganges in 1926.

The original phrase is "Cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey".

Note that the word is "of" and NOT "off".

The brass monkey was a small brass cannon situated on the poop deck.
The cannonballs were made of iron.
Brass and iron contract at different rates in freezing weather, so that in extreme temperatures it is impossible to load the balls into the cannon because they just won't fit.

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Jane · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject:

Okay. I stand corrected. i really should stop copying things from magazines

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Bez · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject:

Not your fault at all - I have just been doing some research on the web and have only found references to your version with the comments that it wasn't feasible. I think that the saying is so old, and so debased - it was my ex-husband that the old sailor was correcting for going around talking about "brass monkey weather" and using the word "off" instead of "of".

I will have to aske my sister if she can root out my grandparents copy of the Dictionary of Phrase and Fable" (which contains a photo of E Cobham Brewer himself) so that I can write it down exactly.

That book was invaluable when I was at school.

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Jane · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject:

Now that sounds like a good book. Maybe it will contain other useful information Laughing

I like reading these kind of things. I also like it when I can prove someone is wrong.

by the way they are taken from the Sunday Express magazine - adapted from The Book of Firsts by Ian Harrison

Shall we write in Bez? You never know where letters get you Smilie_PDT

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Bez · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject:

There's a thousand websites out there that need to be corrected as well!!!

I told my cousin in Michigan about John Cotterall and what he wrote about the Hootons and that he'd accepted that he was mistaken. The question cousin Tom posed was "Is he going to correct it?"

The answer would be "not unless it runs to a 2nd edition". Just because we had one little local success with the Southport Visiter (I wonder if anyone entered the competition), I doubt anyone on the big newspapers would bother. They wouldn't be guaranteed to even print a letter, but you could try.

When I bought my copy of the Dictionary of Phrase and Fable there were several copies to choose from. You may still find a copy - Broadhursts - top floor if I remember correctly. It would keep you going on the forum for years and years.

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Dotty · Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: I'll say it again...

I'll say it again....how interesting!

Keep it up Jane,

Dotty

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Family History is moo-sic to my ears!

Jane · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:29 am Post subject:

NOT ON YOUR NELLIE

I looked it up on the internet and got -

NOT ON YOUR NELLIE! (OR NELLY) - " 'Not on your life!' An intensive tag, dating since the late 1930s. Used by, e.g., Frank Norman in his very readable 'Bang to Rights,' 1958. Short for 'not on your Nellie Duff!'; and 'Nellie Duff' rhymes on 'puff,' breath, breath of life, life itself." From "A Dictionary of Catchphrases" by Eric Partridge

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Jane · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:31 am Post subject:

COCK-A-HOOP

In the 16th century, during times of celebration, it was customary to remove the cock (tap) from a cask of beer and place it on another part of the container - called the hoop. This allowed the contents to flow freely, prompting cries of elation.

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Jane · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:32 am Post subject:

WELL HEELED

In the American wild west, 'heeled' was a slang term for armed. A gunfighter was said to be 'well heeled' if he had a pair of pistols. Later the term came to be associated with power and money

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Jane · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:34 am Post subject:

THE WRITING IS ON THE WALL

In biblical times, the impending fall of Babylon was said to have been predicted by the appearance of a disembodied hand which wrote a message on a wall warning the city would fall to the Persians.

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Jane · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:03 am Post subject:

WHEN THE FAT LADY SINGS

The phrase, meaning when everything is finally over, is thought to have its roots in the deep south of the US, where the original words were - "Church aint's out 'til the fat lady sings".

A sports reporter in Texas borrowed the saying in 1978 to describe the climax of a rodeo event and it captured the public imagination.

I didn't know it was such a new saying

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Jane · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:04 am Post subject:

KEEP UNDER WRAPS

In the early 20th century the coverings used for the first motor cars to keep them secret until they were officially launched were known as wraps.

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Jane · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:06 am Post subject:

DOUBLE WHAMMY

In fifties America a whammy was an evil influence. The phrase "putting the whammy on someone" appeared in comic strips but was adopted by the Conservative politician Ian Lang in the 1992 general election, when he risked losing both his Cabinet post and his seat to Labour. He referred to the threat as a 'double whammy'.

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