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Marshall - Birkdale
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Bez



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1143


Location: Churchtown

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:25 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

I agree that placing Ellen Hodge at the end may indicate that she is a grandchild and is another reason why there may be a missing line in the transcription.

Not everything at the LRO is in the online catalogue - this is an ongoing project and the Will Flatteners only completed their 20 year task a few years ago.  Generally the Wills need to be looked for in the Diocese of Chester indices which are on the shelves at the LRO, but there are some additional ones listed separately (indexed by the Will Flatteners).  However, we know from Joyce Otterstrom that this Will was proved at Chester so will (or should) be in the published volumes.  What I am suggesting is that you email the LRO and ask if they hold the Will there, giving as much information as possible, including the fact it was proved at Chester.  If the answer is "yes" then you could ask for a copy - the cost will vary according to the condition of the Will.

If you manage to get a copy then early 19th century documents are relatively easy to decipher, except that they still use abbreviations.  However, there are many books on the subject and lots of online help as well.
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HodgePodge



Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 120


Location: Liverpool

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant, I'll do that over the weekend
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HodgePodge



Joined: 19 Nov 2006
Posts: 120


Location: Liverpool

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After days of going over & over this material trying to place my GGG grandmother, Ellen Marshall... I've finally had a breakthrough.

I've been filling in the details of the children and grandchildren of Edward Marshall, in the hope of finding a gap in which Ellen would comfortably fit. It seems impossible for her to be Edward's daughter.... especially if she were legitimate, as his wife died in 1795 aged 53, the very year Ellen seems to be born

I've explored all the children who lived to adulthood, and most can be eliminated:
Ellen born 1770 married James Rimmer in 1792 and died in 1795 in childbirth.
Edward married 1796, so isn't entirely ruled out, but had a daughter named Ellen in 1807
No sign of a marriage for Robert prior to 1806, but he names 2 children of his marriage Ellen.
All other children are too young

The only child who cannot be accounted for is William born 1776, who I've been thoroughly exploring because of my theory that Ellen's parents were named William & Ann (based on naming patterns of her children).

Another little niggling factor has been the reports from Bernulf Llewelyn Hodge's research in the 1930s, when he spoke to EA Hodge (Birkdale builder, politician & Ellen's grandson). EA Hodge mentioned a grandmother Forshaw.... which is why I was barking up the wrong tree (pardon the pun) for so many years assuming she was daughter of John Marshall & Ellen Forshaw.... though this would make "Grandma Forshaw" EA's great grandmother.

I've been searching through maintenance and filiation orders for possible leads, and the only one was a maintenance order for a daughter of Ann Forshaw and William Marshall, wheelwright, in 1795, baptism confirms the child was Ellen (6th Mar 1795). The only stumbling block was that this child was born in Burscough.

This evening I decided to go back to the census returns to check which Marshalls lived in the vicinity of the Hodges, guessing that they were all located together having inherited portions of one tenement.

In 1851, Ellen is described as born in Birkdale, but in 1861 her birthplace is Burscough. I had always assumed this was the inaccurate one... but clearly this is not the case. I've found her at last!

This now explains why EA Hodge had a Grandma Forshaw who was married as a Marshall.

I still can't trace William... no obvious marriage or death. I suspect that he had no legitimate children and perhaps had died by 1826, and the William named in the will a subsequent child from Edward's 2nd marriage. If he were alive, why would Ellen be a beneficiary in her own right?

It does, however, explain why Ellen sits at the bottom of the list, being the illegitimate member of the family.
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Bez



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1143


Location: Churchtown

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great news - thank you for letting us know.
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Dotty
Committee Member


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 3271


Location: North Meols

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:22 pm    Post subject: Phew... Reply with quote

Well it took some time to get there but you did it...

Well done!    

Dotty    
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andy orm



Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 93


Location: Chorley

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My gg grandfather John Ormesher married Mary Ellen Marshall at St Lukes in 1887.Her father is listed as John Marshall.On the 1871 census they are in Mount Street with her mother listed as Ann from Formby.Can anyone enlighten me as to their ancestors as there seem to be more than one John Marshall on the 1851 census.
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Brylin



Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 2


Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been reading your posts with interest, especially the will of Edward Marshall.(I think you've fixed my brick wall)  My husband descends from Edward Marshall of Wood Moss, Scarisbrick via his daughter Catherine who married John Huyton/Highton. The census in1851,61,71 says he was born in Scarisbrick but I feel sure that the Parish Clerks entry for Formby is him. What I've been looking at is the three Marshalls(William, James, Edward) farming 18acres each virtually side by side in Wood Moss and Whyke. I believe its these three that appear as born in Ainsdale in the Formby records Two of them give Formby as PoB (looking at the map I see that Ainsdale is close to Scarisbrick too):

Baptism: 11 Nov 1798 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
Edward Marshal - Son of Edwd. Marshal & Ellen
   Abode: Ainsdale
   Register: Baptisms 1710 - 1812, Page 108, Entry 19
   Source: LDS Film 1849657

Baptism: 15 Jan 1797 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
James Marshal - Son of Edward Marshal & Ellen
   Abode: Ainsdale
   Register: Baptisms 1710 - 1812, Page 106, Entry 3
   Source: LDS Film 1849657

Baptism: 26 Oct 1800 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
Wm. Marshal - Son of Edward Marshal & Ellen
   Register: Baptisms 1710 - 1812, Page 112, Entry 23
   Source: LDS Film 1849657

Baptism: 26 Dec 1802 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
Alice Marshal - Daughter of Edward Marshal & Ellen
   Abode: Ainsdale
   Register: Baptisms 1710 - 1812, Page 116, Entry 20
   Source: LDS Film 1849657

Have been looking at the sequence of naming of their children.
William names the oldest children Edward and Alice (if he was a son of the older Edward and his new wife Ellen Johnson I don't think he would use Alice, the first wife's name)
Edward names his Ellen, James, Edward (James Blevin is the maternal grandfather)
James names his Ellen and Edward

With a little help from google earth and old maps I was trying to sort out exactly where they might have lived. From oldmaps there are a group of cottages called Wood Moss cottages half way along Wood Moss Lane. Just a messy scrubby bit on google earth. Unfortunately I didnt investigate when I visited Scarisbrick this year.

Having seen the will I think it is highly likely that these farms relate to the inheritance from their grandfather/?father. Oldmaps put Wood Moss in different places on different maps.

In the 1841 census  Edward has his mother Ellen living with the family and also his brother Robert b 1813

I would welcome any comment/theories on what I've found so far and maybe there are a few distant relatives out there.
Thanks
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pajkn



Joined: 22 Feb 2012
Posts: 2



PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Ellen Blevin b. 1775 Reply with quote

Ellen is my ggm x 4 on my mother's side through Ellen's daughter Alice Marshall (1802 -1848). I have Ellen marrying Edward Marshall (LDS 178122, 14 September 1796), but cannot find her baptism or parents.
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Brylin



Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 2


Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you looked at the Lancashire ParishClerks online for the records? There is a family who are having children in the period 1763-1777 and some of the entries say they are in Ainsdale (where Edward Marshall lived)Here is the record that could  be our Ellen Blevin:
Baptism: 10 Jul 1768 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
Ellen Blevin - Daughter of James Blevin
   Register: Baptisms 1710 - 1812, Page 57, Entry 26
   Source: LDS Film 1849657
This is her marriage at St Cuthberts North Meols:
14 Sep 1796 Edward Marshall & Ellen Blevin
This is probably her parents marriage:
Marriage: 25 Jul 1763 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
James Blevin - Husbandman of this Parish
Hannah Molyneux - (X), Spinster of this Parish
   Witness: Richd. Curry; Henry Tyrer
   Banns Read: 9 Jul 1763, 2nd: 16 Jul 1763, 3rd: 23 Jul 1763
   Married by Banns by: James Mount Minister
   Notes: [groom signed his surname B Leving]
   Register: Marriages 1754 - 1812, Page 11, Entry 44
   Source: LDS Film 1849657
I need to have another look at the 1841 census as Ellen is in the household of her son Edward and his wife Jane in Scarisbrick
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jodylloyd



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 275


Location: Southport

PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:35 pm    Post subject: Partial answer Reply with quote

andy orm wrote:
My gg grandfather John Ormesher married Mary Ellen Marshall at St Lukes in 1887.Her father is listed as John Marshall.On the 1871 census they are in Mount Street with her mother listed as Ann from Formby.Can anyone enlighten me as to their ancestors as there seem to be more than one John Marshall on the 1851 census.


I have Mary Ellen's parents as John Marshall (bn 1834) and Ann (bn 1838) with other children being:
- Thomas (bn 1860)
- Richard (bn 1864)
- William (bn 1867)
- Margaret (bn 1870)
- John (bn 1872)
- Lizzi (bn 1874)
- George (bn 1884)

Ancestry is playing up again at the moment so I can't access my full records - my interest comes from Ellen Ormesher (bn 1891) who married William Lloyd in 1911. But I also have Ormeshers from Upholland in my ancestry as well

There is a marriage at St James, Birkdale which may be them:

Marriage: 10 Aug 1860 St James, Birkdale, Lancashire, England
John Marshall - (X), 27 Farmer Bachelor of Little London
Hannah Howard - (X), 19 Servant Spinster of Birkdale
Groom's Father: Thomas Marshall, Farmer
Bride's Father: Henry Howard, Plate Layer
Witness: William Hodgson; William Bradshaw
Married by Banns by: B. Swift Incumbant
Register: Marriages 1857 - 1876, Page 42, Entry 83
Source: LDS Film 1657578

I'll have a proper look when I can get on ancestry

Jo
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andy orm



Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 93


Location: Chorley

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jo,

I have the first part too.What I'm struggling for is which John Is Mary Ellens father..there are a number of rhem from all around the same time.

Ellen Ormesher is my first cousin,twice removed.I have cerificates and photos for her ancestors if you'd like any information.

Andy
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jodylloyd



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 275


Location: Southport

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: One to eliminate from your research Reply with quote

1-John Marshall, son of Richard Marshall and Ann Norris, was born in 1834 in Ainsdale, Lancashire, England, was christened on 7 Sep 1834 in Formby, Lancashire, died in 1916 in Leamington Road, Ainsdale, Lancashire aged 82, and was buried on 5 Jan 1916 in Formby, Lancashire.

Christening Notes: Baptism: 7 Sep 1834 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
John Marshall - Son of Richard Marshall & Ann
Abode: Ainsdale
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: I.Bowman Minister
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1872, Page 66, Entry 524
Source: LDS Film 1849657

Burial Notes: Burial: 5 Jan 1916 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
John Marshall -
Age: 81 years
Abode: 11 Leamington Road Ainsdale
Buried by: Charles Wright Vicar
Register: Burials 1873 - 1922, Page 169, Entry 1348
Source: LDS Film 1849657

Noted events in his life were:

 He appeared on the census in 1871 in Liverpool Road, Ainsdale, Lancashire. John (35), agricultural labourer, lived with his wife - Anne (27), children - Anne (5) and William (1) and lodger - Philip Norris (60), agricultural labourer
 He appeared on the census in 1881 in Warren House, Formby, Lancashire. John (46), agricultural labourer, lived with his wife - Ann (37), children - William (11) and Margaret (9) and lodger - Philip Norris (70)
 He appeared on the census in 1891 in Warren House, Formby, Lancashire. John (56), farmer, lived with his wife - Ann (46) and children - Ann (25), William (21) and Margaret (19)
 He appeared on the census in 1901 in Warren House, Formby, Lancashire. John (66), farmer, lived with his wife - Ann (57) and children - William (31) and Margaret (29)
 He appeared on the census in 1911 in 11 Lancaster Road, Ainsdale, Lancashire. John (76), widower, old age pensioner, lived with his son - William (40), general labourer

John married Anne Crompton, daughter of William Crompton and Margaret, on 28 Dec 1862 in Formby, Lancashire. Anne was born in 1844 in Prescot, Lancashire, was christened on 9 Feb 1844 in St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, died in 1902 in Barton Warren, Ainsdale, Lancashire aged 58, and was buried on 24 Jul 1902 in Formby, Lancashire. They had three children: Anne, William and Margaret.

Marriage Notes: Marriage: 28 Dec 1862 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
John Marshall - of full age Farmer Bachelor of Formby
Anne Crompton - Minor Spinster of Formby
Groom's Father: Richd. Marshall, Farmer
Bride's Father: Wm. Crompton, Bailiff
Witness: Joseph Marshall; Isabella Dickinson
Married by: Lonsdale Formby
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1918, Page 36, Entry 72
Source: LDS Film 1849657

Christening Notes: Baptism: 9 Feb 1844 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
Ann Crompton - [Child] of William Crompton & Margaret
Abode: Prescot
Occupation: Shopkeeper
Baptised by: W.S. Vawdrey
Register: Baptisms 1843 - 1851, Page 39, Entry 309
Source: LDS Film 1657584

Burial Notes: Burial: 24 Jul 1902 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
Ann Marshall -
Age: 58 years
Abode: Barton Warren Ainsdale
Buried by: Thos. Bishop
Register: Burials 1873 - 1922, Page 118, Entry 938
Source: LDS Film 1849657

2-Anne Marshall was born in 1865 in Ainsdale, Lancashire, England and was christened on 11 Dec 1865 in Formby, Lancashire.

Christening Notes: Baptism: 11 Dec 1865 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
Ann Marshall - [Child] of John Marshall & Ann
Abode: Ainsdale
Occupation: Farmer
Baptised by: L.Formby
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1872, Page 176, Entry 1404
Source: LDS Film 1849657

2-William Marshall was born in 1870 in Ainsdale, Lancashire, England and was christened on 23 Jan 1870 in Formby, Lancashire.

Christening Notes: Baptism: 23 Jan 1870 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
William Marshall - [Child] of John Marshall & Ann
Abode: Ainsdale
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: L.Formby
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1872, Page 190, Entry 1515
Source: LDS Film 1849657

2-Margaret Marshall was born in 1872 in Ainsdale, Lancashire, England and was christened on 10 Mar 1872 in Formby, Lancashire.

Christening Notes: Baptism: 10 Mar 1872 St Peter, Formby, Lancashire, England
Margaret Marshall - [Child] of John Marshall & Ann
Abode: Ainsdale
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: L.Formby
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1872, Page 199, Entry 1587
Source: LDS Film 1849657

To save you chasing red herrings!

Jo  
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jodylloyd



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 275


Location: Southport

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Candidate for the right John Reply with quote

I've been going through my research and am inclined to think that John Marshall, baptised 23 Oct 1831, North Meols, son of Thomas Marshall and Mary, nee Rimmer may be a likely candidate.

In both 1841 and 1851, John is living with his grandparents as his mother had died in 1834 - I don't know what happened to Thomas at present, he may have died or remarried.

The date of birth fits with John's age in the 1901 census and his first two children are Thomas and Mary (Ellen).....

What do you think?

Jo  
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andy orm



Joined: 30 Jun 2009
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Location: Chorley

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jo,

A definite possibility...If only I could find them on the 1861 census.

Andy
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Expat



Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Marshall Birkdale Y DNA Reply with quote

Hi there, I am new to the forum. I am a descendant of the Marshall family from John born 1697 who married Ann Soar who was transported for theft.

I was wondering if any Marshall males have had their Y DNA taken and uploaded to Family Tree DNA site.

I read a post by a Ron Marshall on Ancestry that said there is a family tree that refers to three Marshall brothers who came from Yorkshire to Birkdale. Does anyone have a copy of that will? I was hoping that Y DNA may support that theory.

Any help with these matters would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

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